Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
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18-09-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
@slowminded

What you don't seem to get is a very simple observation. Every single major religion in the world is disrespectful of women’s rights. They all qualify women’s has inferior to men and all advocate for men to rule over them. They are very clear and very insistent on that point. Is there a problem of sexism and disrespect for women in those community? Yes there is and a big one I would say. In fact there is a problem of sexism in pretty much all communities including the white privilege middle class. Some community are more sexist than others and the main factor behind that is education and connectivity. The sexism and violence expressed by the Muslim minority toward women is very real and disgusting, but isn't abnormal when compared to other marginalised minorities with similarly high religiosity. It's not inherent to Muslim or Arabs. It's inherent to their socio-economical and cultural position.

According to the official stats of my country, American Indian have a bigger problem of rape and conjugal violence than Muslim by landslide. Could that be related to their culture or their religion? Maybe, but there is much more chances this has to do with the abusive way they were raised in boarding schools after being ripped of their families who were themselves living in the dirt. It could be linked to their crippling unemployment, isolation and disrespected status compared to the rest of the society. Don't you find it very odd that no matter the religion or history or the ethnic group, a community of poor, isolated, estranged, disrespected and/or with a traumatic background always turns up to be more violent both toward itself and others? You are seeing the problem, but you don't address the right causes: poverty, ignorance and marginalisation.
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18-09-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 02:28 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @slowminded
What you don't seem to get is a very simple observation. Every single major religion in the world is disrespectful of women’s rights.
False statement.
FYI: There is one religion that is respectful to women's rights.
Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints teaches that daughters and sons of God Heavenly Father Elohim are equal before Him.

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18-09-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
@Alla

The Mormons aren't considered a major religion. They are considered a sect of a Christianity which is itself extremely sexist. Mormons themselves are divided on the issue of women's rights. Mainstream Mormons are little better than Catholics making them very sexists while fundamentalist Mormons are on par with Salafists Muslim. There is a Mormon feminist movement and several groups do profess full equality, but they don't represent a majority of the Mormon Churches. Mormons frequently made the news for cases of incest, conjugal violence and polygamy in the past. It seems the practice of polygamy seems to be in quick decline amongst Mormons these recent years. They are getting better, but aren't there yet.
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18-09-2015, 02:58 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 02:28 PM)epronovost Wrote:  According to the official stats of my country, American Indian have a bigger problem of rape and conjugal violence than Muslim by landslide. Could that be related to their culture or their religion? Maybe, but there is much more chances this has to do with the abusive way they were raised in boarding schools after being ripped of their families who were themselves living in the dirt. It could be linked to their crippling unemployment, isolation and disrespected status compared to the rest of the society. Don't you find it very odd that no matter the religion or history or the ethnic group, a community of poor, isolated, estranged, disrespected and/or with a traumatic background always turns up to be more violent both toward itself and others? You are seeing the problem, but you don't address the right causes: poverty, ignorance and marginalisation.

But it's much easier to blame something intrinsic to people rather than their situation, don't you think?

Then we don't have to do anything about it!

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18-09-2015, 02:59 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 02:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 02:28 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @slowminded
What you don't seem to get is a very simple observation. Every single major religion in the world is disrespectful of women’s rights.
False statement.
FYI: There is one religion that is respectful to women's rights.
Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints teaches that daughters and sons of God Heavenly Father Elohim are equal before Him.

You seem prone to making arguments or claims based on just 1 or 2 elements. That doesn't substantiate the total efforts and statements. People are quite equal in written proclamations doesn't mean how the system is set-up. Why are there not women having multiple husbands apart of LDS teachings? The actions and rules associated make up more than one statement of proclaimed equality.

Buddhism, depending on creed and if you evne call it a religion as some don't. Doesn't make any profound discourging element against woman or men as different. Taoism is rather the same in it's individual manner. Several pagan/naturalistic/animalisitc religions are respectful of rights across the board as well like Wiccan/Shinto views.

Though it's easier to formulate that way when you don't regulate the idea of the religion to specific texts written by men. AND that's probably significant to why they aren't MAJOR religions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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18-09-2015, 03:03 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 01:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Motherfucker shut your gob and shove your college "tolerance for the fascist" bullshit up your ass!

Remember the thousands of muslim thughs who roamed through the streets of London vandalising every shop they could find just because Salman Rushdi published a work of fiction???

Remember how last year the jewish community of France was terrorised for weeks when thousands of muslims roamed through the streets of French cities burning, vandalising and looting jewish property whilest also severly injuring several jews???

Remember how thousands of muslims marched passed the holocaust memorial in Berlin last year screaming "jews to the gas chambers"???

Remember how the vast majority of the European muslim community refused to condem the Charlie Habdo, Hyper Cacher attacks and insisted on "Je ne suis pas Charlie"????

Remember how thousands of muslims vandalised through European cities because an artist in Denmark draw a cartoon???


The entire Islamic world is ruled by an undemocratic culture of supersticion that follows the principles of some early medieval illiterate goatsalesman! Medieval bullshit that viciously persecutes non-muslims, gays, lesbians, free thinkers, atheists, artists, democrats and the very notion of reason itself!
There is no counter culture to this in the Islamic world and therefor these people are nothing more than a buch of uncivilised goatfucking sand savages!
Any excuse or tolerance for such disgusting behavior is nothing more than masochism! Even worse, it is masochism that you have accepted from sadists!

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18-09-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 03:03 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 01:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Motherfucker shut your gob and shove your college "tolerance for the fascist" bullshit up your ass!

Remember the thousands of muslim thughs who roamed through the streets of London vandalising every shop they could find just because Salman Rushdi published a work of fiction???

Remember how last year the jewish community of France was terrorised for weeks when thousands of muslims roamed through the streets of French cities burning, vandalising and looting jewish property whilest also severly injuring several jews???

Remember how thousands of muslims marched passed the holocaust memorial in Berlin last year screaming "jews to the gas chambers"???

Remember how the vast majority of the European muslim community refused to condem the Charlie Habdo, Hyper Cacher attacks and insisted on "Je ne suis pas Charlie"????

Remember how thousands of muslims vandalised through European cities because an artist in Denmark draw a cartoon???


The entire Islamic world is ruled by an undemocratic culture of supersticion that follows the principles of some early medieval illiterate goatsalesman! Medieval bullshit that viciously persecutes non-muslims, gays, lesbians, free thinkers, atheists, artists, democrats and the very notion of reason itself!
There is no counter culture to this in the Islamic world and therefor these people are nothing more than a buch of uncivilised goatfucking sand savages!
Any excuse or tolerance for such disgusting behavior is nothing more than masochism! Even worse, it is masochism that you have accepted from sadists!

There is counter cultures and sub-cultures to this and it's nearly impossible for any culture of a range in size to not have such things. You can say many of their counter-culture desires are mainly just reaching out to whatever the hell they want to define "western" culture as. It still is existent.

If you rail about how the problem is the culture of superstition . . . and so forth, to then rail these people is point X is a point to you saying the culture is the issue.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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18-09-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 03:03 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 01:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Motherfucker shut your gob and shove your college "tolerance for the fascist" bullshit up your ass!

Thanks for being so polite!

I love you too, sweetheart.

(18-09-2015 03:03 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Remember the thousands of muslim thughs who roamed through the streets of London vandalising every shop they could find just because Salman Rushdi published a work of fiction???

Remember how last year the jewish community of France was terrorised for weeks when thousands of muslims roamed through the streets of French cities burning, vandalising and looting jewish property whilest also severly injuring several jews???

Remember how thousands of muslims marched passed the holocaust memorial in Berlin last year screaming "jews to the gas chambers"???

Remember how the vast majority of the European muslim community refused to condem the Charlie Habdo, Hyper Cacher attacks and insisted on "Je ne suis pas Charlie"????

Remember how thousands of muslims vandalised through European cities because an artist in Denmark draw a cartoon???

Man, I wish I could use the actions of thousands to judge the character of millions.

The world would be so much simpler!

(18-09-2015 03:03 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  The entire Islamic world is ruled by an undemocratic culture of supersticion that follows the principles of some early medieval illiterate goatsalesman! Medieval bullshit that viciously persecutes non-muslims, gays, lesbians, free thinkers, atheists, artists, democrats and the very notion of reason itself!
There is no counter culture to this in the Islamic world and therefor these people are nothing more than a buch of uncivilised goatfucking sand savages!
Any excuse or tolerance for such disgusting behavior is nothing more than masochism! Even worse, it is masochism that you have accepted from sadists!

Do you go outside raving screed like that? I hope not. I'd hate to see you arrested. No one has a monopoly on being reactionary, champ. You amply and ironically demonstrate that right here.

Did I really excuse and tolerate such behaviour? Shucks. I certainly can't find anything in my posts which did so. Please let me know where that happened, would you? I'd appreciate it!

Of course, if there were no counter-culture, then there would be none of those very same non-muslims, gays, lesbians, free thinkers, atheists, artists, and democrats you claim are persecuted - you can't have it both ways. Perhaps leave a bit of space between those statements next time? It's pretty obviously bullshit when they're explicitly contradictory and literally back to back.

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18-09-2015, 04:01 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 02:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Again, you are quite good at taking things out of context.

I'm being facetious to highlight how you've evaded substantiating your original claims.

(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  It goes to prove that Islam is an extremely violent religion, other stuff that I posted goes to prove that Islam is extremely oppressive and disrespectful of womens rights.
Together they show that rape is right up Islam's ally.

Sure, because obviously Sufis and Nizaris don't exist. I mean, all those people are all exactly the same, right? If I didn't know better, I'd almost say that selective interpretation of vague scriptures allow one to justify pretty much any social stance under the sun (cf Christianity). I'm glad you know better!

(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  United nations report, muslims convicted, abundance of victims, police reports...that's all lies and shit....ok, just makes me wonder what would you consider as evidence ?

Oh, you know. Actual evidence? If your claim is that "some Muslims are violent" then I freely acknowledge it. Any more than that, you'll have to demonstrate.

So, when it comes to making specific demographic and criminological assertions, I'd expect... data. Anecdotes do indeed prove existence. They say nothing about prevalence.

(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Seriously, if you consider an official Norwegian police report or conviction of muslims for gang rape as nonevidence ,I got nothing better to offer.

"There was once a Muslim who raped someone" does not prove anything about what proportions of what crimes are committed by what demographics. It's insane and/or dishonest to repeatedly claim it does.

If you're talking about the video from your previous post... the speakers say that the report is regarding a single year (twice, actually). The video title says five years. Do you see why this is immediately suspect? It furthermore doesn't link to the source document, which would be an otherwise trivial way to justify its claims. Not that "all identified attackers", if we can even accept that at face value, means "all attackers", since we can prove that in the United States under similar conditions victims identify their assailants as of visible minority background far more often than real statistics bear out, notwithstanding unidentified individuals - and of course we'll ignore the part where the police spokesperson explicitly links crime to poverty and social marginalisation.
(but at the very least, this is still much better than the pathetic "look what I googled in 3 seconds" collection from earlier!)

...

Premise: some X are Y.
Observation: here is an X that is Y.
Conclusion: all X are Y.
... do you see the flaw?
Oh, ffs....

Here is the report, it is in Norwegian as you would expect.
Report

And here is the significant data from from the report , along with the link to the site where I found the translation
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.rs/2012/05...stics.html

The report’s Table 30, Typer voldtekt anmeldt til Oslo politidistrikt 2010 med identifisert mistenkt/siktet [types of rape reported in Oslo Police District in 2010 where the suspects/accused have been identified], which has been divided according the perpetrator’s country of origin, tells us that men from the Middle East, Africa and Asia are significantly over-represented in all five rape categories:

Type of rape Third-Worldimmigrant Native orEuropean
Party related rape
(date rape) 38.8% 32.7%
Relational rape
(perpetrator and victim know each other) 42.2% 40.0%
Vulnerability rape
(where the victim is incapable of resisting) 60.9% 34.1%

Assault rape 100.0% 0.0%

Other 54.6% 45.5%

So? Is that the Data you are asking for?

Quote:Premise: some X are Y.
Observation: here is an X that is Y.
Conclusion: all X are Y.
... do you see the flaw?

I never claimed that all immigrants are rapists. If I did will you kindly point out where I did that ?

And please remind me what my original claim was.

As far as I am aware my original claim, although formed as a question "Does this come as a surprise to anyone?" was that with the arrival of this many islamic immigrants we will witness a rise in crimes against gays as presented in the article that TheGermanAreComing posted.

My secondary claim was that we will also see a rise in rapes. I backed my claim up with the United Nations chart and data about the increase in violent crimes and rape.

And I am still standing behind those claims. Both of them.

I might even decide to present fresh cases of incidents like in GaC's article to you on daily basis. ( No, I'm not, but I could , I wouldn't be short on material )

You have problems with my evidence, but you yourself didn't present any.

Oh, yes you did, or maybe it was somebody else
"They count it differently now and that's why they have 1500% increase in rape " or maybe Swedes decided to go all rapy all of a sudden.

I wonder if they count every punch as a separate assault and that accounts for 300% increase in violent crimes?

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18-09-2015, 04:52 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 03:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Man, I wish I could use the actions of thousands to judge the character of millions.
You can , or at least you should be able to reach some conclusions knowing that those millions never raise their voices or take any action against those thousands.

Prove me wrong and give us the link showing for example that any terrorist have been arrested and tried in Islamic countries , or any terrorist extradited.

You see, not all of the Germans were nazi's around the WWII either, but ....you know what happened or you need a link for that too?

Quote:Did I really excuse and tolerate such behaviour?

You do excuse it and tolerate it by downplaying it, by not acknowledging it for what it really is.

Reminds me of this

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

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