THE QUESTION (first date)
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19-11-2013, 12:07 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
(18-11-2013 11:57 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  If I were in the dating game, and I were looking for something long term, I would want to get this out of the way straight off. I don't want want to be with someone who would reject me because of my lack of beliefs. It's that simple. I think you got lucky. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Well I do agree. I think maybe my problem is that in the past I've been lucky in that any girl I dated, including those that turned into long term relationships, even if they had religious beliefs, they have always seemed to go fine in the past. And that's despite my inability to be nonvocal about it. Usually that just led to interesting conversations.

Lately it seems like it's everyone I meet. Didn't use to be that way.

...
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19-11-2013, 12:17 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
(19-11-2013 12:07 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 11:57 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  If I were in the dating game, and I were looking for something long term, I would want to get this out of the way straight off. I don't want want to be with someone who would reject me because of my lack of beliefs. It's that simple. I think you got lucky. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Well I do agree. I think maybe my problem is that in the past I've been lucky in that any girl I dated, including those that turned into long term relationships, even if they had religious beliefs, they have always seemed to go fine in the past. And that's despite my inability to be nonvocal about it. Usually that just led to interesting conversations.

Lately it seems like it's everyone I meet. Didn't use to be that way.

Just hang in there. You'll find the right lady.

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19-11-2013, 12:56 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
(19-11-2013 12:17 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 12:07 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Well I do agree. I think maybe my problem is that in the past I've been lucky in that any girl I dated, including those that turned into long term relationships, even if they had religious beliefs, they have always seemed to go fine in the past. And that's despite my inability to be nonvocal about it. Usually that just led to interesting conversations.

Lately it seems like it's everyone I meet. Didn't use to be that way.

Just hang in there. You'll find the right lady.

Or dude, or whatever... I try not to judge! Big Grin

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19-11-2013, 03:38 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
(17-11-2013 01:58 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Last night, she asked the question. I never said "no", but asked her what she meant by "God" she thought this was obvious, I explained why it was not, which she understood, then she explained herself. She doesn't seem to hold to a particular "God" (i.e., Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah, etc...) but does believe all religions have only one main "god" at the top no matter how many they have, so they all agree on that. I said that's not true of all religions, some have many "gods" and there may, or may not be a hierarchical structure present within that belief system. She disagreed...she is wrong about this, but I let it go because it's a first date, I don't need to argue, and regardless she made her point. She believes in one main "God" that all religions share, regardless of their religious beliefs, or concepts of other "gods". So a sort of Deism I suppose. Never got out of her if this is a active personal "god" like an actual being, or just an "essence", for lack of a better word, in the universe. I'm assuming I couldn't clarify this with her, because I don't get the feeling she ever bothered to think about the distinction, but seemed to move between the two concepts as it fit her narrative.

So, she wanted to know if I believe in that, whatever that is. I still don't think this is a clear definition, but it's a first date not a debate, and people like her don't get that there is a difference between that distinction and would just think you're being difficult by seeking clarity, so I moved on. I (still not saying "no") explained that I accept things for which I have reason to accept, thing that I can experience, perceive, and/or have some sort of knowledge of. If I've had no experienced of a particular thing, or in this case, what you might call the supernatural, then I'd have no reason to believe in that thing, because I've had no experience of it. And if I did experience it, then it is something that has actually happened and is real, and if it's real then it's part of reality, which makes it no longer supernatural.

I asked her why she felt she had reason to believe. Here I expected her to say some internal fluffy feelings like a wonder for nature or awe in the beauty of things. And that's exactly where she started. But I explain I to do have all those feelings, and she felt that was "God". Basically that same conversation Oprah just had. At least on the side of what she said. I handled my point of view far better than the woman Oprah was talking to. I made my point that my knowledge of the world, of science, and how it works has not diminished the beauty of the world, but enhance it, that I don't simply see the awe and wonder of the world when I'm out in nature, but I can see and feel it right here in this car (I was driving at the time) because everything becomes so much more amazing when you really learn about it.

This seemed to have impressed her, because see seemed to have made the assumption that without a belief in "God" (which at this point I still haven't said) or the supernatural, I must have no wonder or awe in me, but she felt the way I spoke about things, and the passion for which I expressed them, and I feel she felt I had even more wonder and awe for the world than she did. I think she liked that but I think it seemed to confuse her, because she seemed to not understand why I didn't fit in the box I should have fit in. From her follow up questions, she seem to keep trying to figure out how I did actually still fit inside my box she gave me, but kept failing.

She gave up on that, and from there it all seemed to go. She seemed satisfied with my response, but still just had this nagging feeling that I need to have the supernatural in there, because that matters for some reason. But because of the questions she kept asking trying to figure out why I dismissed the supernatural, and considering the reason she gave for believing the supernatural, the awe and wonder of the world, and that I was able to eclipse her feelings of wonderment and awe with only science and reality, without resulting to supernatural, I asked here again, what makes you believe the supernatural specifically? Why do you believe in things that you can't and don't experience? To this she became very excited and stated that she has experienced it, lots of things, lots of times. One example that she said that stood out in my mind was this...

She said back when she was still married, her husband sat straight up in bed, without waking up, but was talking in a "real" language that was not earthly, and was possessed by a demon. She knows it was a demon because of the "real" language that he was speaking, which he does not know, and because he was very scary and his eyes were solid black, whites, irises and everything. She did not give much more detail on that, but did say the next day she asked him about it, and he said he thought it must have been a demon, and he remembered saying a name, so they looked up the name, and it was a specific demon. So they knew it must have been real. ...now to be fair, at this point I was done with her... She said some other things too. Now, I can deal with someone having a belief and still dating them, but it's another thing for them to say they've seen and talked to demons. That's outside of my scope.

I just said, "Yeah, so I've never experienced something like that, so having never experienced such a thing, I can't personally have a reason to believe it"? Everything outside of that in the date went really well, but ultimately she said she has to put "God" first, which I was okay with because I don't need to be dating someone who says she literally sees and talks to demons.

I'm guessing you didn't ask her for a second date. She sounds fucking dumb.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." - Henry David Thoreau
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19-11-2013, 06:27 AM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2013 06:36 AM by Cathym112.)
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
My sister of the heart, is a devout baptist. Mission trips the whole 9 yards. We grew up together and remained friends. Anyways - she will never marry an atheist, she says.

Ok, is it a goal in your life to get married and start a family, I ask?

Yes, she says. So I tell her to stop dating atheists. She is wasting THEIR time as well as hers if the end game is not marriage.

Once you reach a certain age, you don't have the time or the energy for bullshit anymore. You don't want to struggle, you don't want your life to be an uphill battle. So you start weeding people out on the first date.

I wanted to get married and start a family. It wasn't the *most* pressing thing in my life but I knew that "just having fun" and dating with no end goal was no longer satisfying. I had a friend with all the benefits to satisfy my sexual needs without the romantic hoopla until I found someone I was compatible with. He was more than happy to oblige me with an occasional no pants dance with no strings attached.

I popped the question on the first date, but with the reverse hope. "Are you religious?" If they believed in god, fine. If they were a church going, bible thumping, or praise Jesus, then no dice. Why start off a relationship with this kind of incompatibility and subsequent hardship/loneliness?

I compare religion to alcohol. Some do it socially, in moderation and it doesn't their life is no worse for it. Then, there are others that hit that bottle every day, several times a day, and it interferes with their life, as they have an extremely irrational disconnect with reality. So in reality, It's like marrying an alcoholic - why would you purposely sign up for that shit?



She did you a favor. If you are busy dating someone that you have no chance of being with (either by her or by your determination) then you aren't available to find a person you are compatible with.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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19-11-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
I remember as a Christian it was very important to date people who were also Christians. When you're that involved in Christianity, it is pretty much the top of the list of criteria for potential partners. So I can see how it would come up on the first date.

I remember when I started college I screened potential boyfriends like that. Especially because at that point, I was of the "no sex before marriage" belief, and I had to make sure that the boy knew that, so I just went ahead and dashed his hopes of getting laid up front.

"Just so you know, I really like you. But I'm a Christian and I'm not going to have sex with you. So... do you want to go on a date?"
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19-11-2013, 08:41 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
(19-11-2013 08:08 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  I remember as a Christian it was very important to date people who were also Christians. When you're that involved in Christianity, it is pretty much the top of the list of criteria for potential partners. So I can see how it would come up on the first date.

I remember when I started college I screened potential boyfriends like that. Especially because at that point, I was of the "no sex before marriage" belief, and I had to make sure that the boy knew that, so I just went ahead and dashed his hopes of getting laid up front.

"Just so you know, I really like you. But I'm a Christian and I'm not going to have sex with you. So... do you want to go on a date?"

"No sex before marrrriage" is fine for me. But really it is more of a chinese tradition rather than the influence of christianity in the case of Chinese.
Still I would rather pick an atheist girlfriend (if I am given the choice that is). At least we will have some common language.Big Grin

I got Dysgraphia and i am not living in the US so plz forgive my poor english.
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19-11-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
"Do you believe in god?"

"Are you fucking kidding me? Who in their right mind believes that shit anymore? Oh! I get it... it's a first date test to see if I'm capable of thinking for myself and taking responsibility for my own morality and my own actions... Good one.
More champagne?"

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20-11-2013, 02:06 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
(19-11-2013 08:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  "Do you believe in god?"

"Are you fucking kidding me? Who in their right mind believes that shit anymore? Oh! I get it... it's a first date test to see if I'm capable of thinking for myself and taking responsibility for my own morality and my own actions... Good one.
More champagne?"

My favorite bit about champagne is when the Mythbusters turned a burning truckload of it into a cork machine-gun. Big Grin

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20-11-2013, 02:55 AM
RE: THE QUESTION (first date)
If it ever comes up, I just say no. Then I explain my view of the cosmos as best I can in a few minutes... Its been fine so far. Contributing factors may be that Canadians are less religious, or maybe I'm attractive enough to get away with saying otherwise unacceptable things.


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