THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
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28-10-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  My question was to DemonicLemon, but you were free to answer. I try to refrain from using language like "atheists must all think that" and I'd thank you to do the same. My thought process was actually:

1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.

You are saying that an atheist has no justification for considering violence to another human to be wrong?

An atheist has justification for some violence against humans (whatever that means to you as an animal) but rape is a survivability enhancement for animals. Are you saying humans are more than mere animals? And if you use the words "social constructs" are you saying social constructs are the equivalent of absolute morality? Can rape be appropriate in a culture? It certainly has been in modern and ancient warfare--to wit--you claim it is found in the Bible among peoples of the ancient near east.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-10-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 01:48 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

No, my complaint was about a complete absence of any rules or laws in the Bible explicitly forbidding rape without worrying about if the woman was a virgin or not. This whole "rape verse" thing is you wiggling out of that, as you changed the subject.


(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

Non-sequitur/failure to understand evolution.

Protip: evolution is the source of altruistic behavior.


(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.

You're changing the subject again.


Remember YHWH could not be troubled to make an explicit prohibition on rape, yet several times, he said don't use my name like a swear word because it hurts my feelings.

I know you can't wrap your head around subjective morality, but the long and the short of it is any morals we have against rape came from humans because you will not find it in the Bible. You will, however, find plenty of God getting upset when his feelings are hurt.

Evolution the source of altruism? Name ANY species outside of homo sapiens EVER that was "altruistic" or "merciful" or etc. Not SYMBIOTIC. ALTRUISTIC.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-10-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are saying that an atheist has no justification for considering violence to another human to be wrong?

An atheist has justification for some violence against humans (whatever that means to you as an animal) but rape is a survivability enhancement for animals. Are you saying humans are more than mere animals? And if you use the words "social constructs" are you saying social constructs are the equivalent of absolute morality? Can rape be appropriate in a culture? It certainly has been in modern and ancient warfare--to wit--you claim it is found in the Bible among peoples of the ancient near east.

There is no absolute morality - get over it. All morality is a social construct on top of our evolved sense of basic morality.

Unwarranted violence against others has been judged immoral by probably every society.

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28-10-2014, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2014 02:55 PM by Chas.)
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 02:42 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 01:48 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  No, my complaint was about a complete absence of any rules or laws in the Bible explicitly forbidding rape without worrying about if the woman was a virgin or not. This whole "rape verse" thing is you wiggling out of that, as you changed the subject.



Non-sequitur/failure to understand evolution.

Protip: evolution is the source of altruistic behavior.



You're changing the subject again.


Remember YHWH could not be troubled to make an explicit prohibition on rape, yet several times, he said don't use my name like a swear word because it hurts my feelings.

I know you can't wrap your head around subjective morality, but the long and the short of it is any morals we have against rape came from humans because you will not find it in the Bible. You will, however, find plenty of God getting upset when his feelings are hurt.

Evolution the source of altruism? Name ANY species outside of homo sapiens EVER that was "altruistic" or "merciful" or etc. Not SYMBIOTIC. ALTRUISTIC.

Elephants, dogs, dolphins,... There is an excellent nature video of an elk protecting an injured elk against wolves.

You need to learn more about the world you live in.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(22-10-2014 02:29 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-10-2014 10:26 AM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  Biblical response to rape: rapist pays victim's dad money and marries the poor girl.

Preferred response to rape: robocop shoots rapist in the dick.

Robocop is more moral than God.

How do you feel, then, about biblical, capital punishment for moral crimes?

Thank you.

Most of the Biblical punishments are grossly disproportionate, and many of the 'crimes' aren't crimes in any human sense, e.g. picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

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28-10-2014, 08:34 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 02:42 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Evolution the source of altruism? Name ANY species outside of homo sapiens EVER that was "altruistic" or "merciful" or etc. Not SYMBIOTIC. ALTRUISTIC.

That's like saying because every creature doesn't have wings, evolution couldn't be the cause of wings.

We do a lot of things other animals don't. So do cats. And sponges. And jellyfish.
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28-10-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
Cats and dogs can lick their balls. Therefore cats and dogs are the true master races.

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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29-10-2014, 05:23 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 08:41 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  Cats and dogs can lick their balls. Therefore cats and dogs are the true master races.

Why do you think we neuter them?
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29-10-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 02:42 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Evolution the source of altruism? Name ANY species outside of homo sapiens EVER that was "altruistic" or "merciful" or etc. Not SYMBIOTIC. ALTRUISTIC.
Bonobos, gibbons, chimpanzees, wolves, vervets, vampire bats, dolphins, baboons, and buffaloes all without leaving the mammals.
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29-10-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
Do you accept this definition of altruism?

"The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others."

Which of these animals have you polled to see if they are disinterested and selfless?

Not symbiotic. Not pack behavior. Not protecting their young. Altruistic.

Thanks.

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