THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
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16-10-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(15-10-2014 08:11 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 05:08 PM)Eve Libertine Wrote:  Catholicism is the epitome of this ludicrous way of thinking. Commit every deadly sin, break every commandment, then on Sunday simply confess that you so did, and voila! Everything's forgiven; don't worry about the killing, don't worry about the incest, don't worry about the infidelity. One would think that the "better religions" would be those that do require that one behaves morally.

Some of the Protestant denomination do not require more than saying you believe. The phrase is usually "I am saved" or "I have accepted Jesus as my personal savior"

But the last is nonsense. Jesus is my savior, yours and everyone else's. That's akin to saying "I've accepted Euclidean geometry is real." According to prophecy, Jesus came, died, rose. Trusting Him is eternal life.

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16-10-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(15-10-2014 01:06 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 10:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hell is a terrible place to be, yes. But hyperbole about it doesn't help my cause or that of an atheist. G.K. Chesterton called hell a compliment to the dignity of free will.
It's actually an insult to free will if you think about it.
I'll show you.

Why does hell exist?

I would say so that people who choose not to go to Heaven (or to the coming new universe, throughout which there will be no unredeemed persons) have a place to go. "Out". Free will.

However, I'm very curious about your idea here and would love to hear more. Where are you going with this? How can we make hell and lack of free will "work"?

Thanks.

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16-10-2014, 01:43 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(15-10-2014 05:08 PM)Eve Libertine Wrote:  Catholicism is the epitome of this ludicrous way of thinking. Commit every deadly sin, break every commandment, then on Sunday simply confess that you so did, and voila! Everything's forgiven; don't worry about the killing, don't worry about the incest, don't worry about the infidelity. One would think that the "better religions" would be those that do require that one behaves morally.

But born again Christianity both provides salvation and the true incentive to behave. If I'm drowning and you rescue me, I will (most likely!) exhibit gratitude. I have huge motivations to be a moral agent for good:

*Witness to the lost
*Gratitude for salvation
*God living in me, changing me
*A godly love strongly compels me to do right and morally by family, friends and enemies
*Etc.

Catholicism is rather like many other religions (do good and avoid hell). Sad.

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16-10-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(15-10-2014 01:41 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 10:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hell is a terrible place to be, yes. But hyperbole about it doesn't help my cause or that of an atheist. G.K. Chesterton called hell a compliment to the dignity of free will.

Please provide an example of what you call hyperbole regarding hell and what description of hell is more accurate to you?

Sorry to be gobbling up posts but I wanted to reply to everyone who made such great points here.

I HATE the devil-with-a-pitchfork kind of thing. Hell is a place where one can think, without being tortured every moment, and learn. But it is the mind not illuminated with the light of love that is condemned, yes?

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16-10-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(15-10-2014 08:07 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Let's say I magically take hell away and remove this Jesus fellow too.
We are left with a club called paradise and a bouncer named god.
If you're a bad guy, you don't get in.
If you've lead a good life, you get past the bouncer.

That imaginary scenario worked well for a while but it encouraged people who had been bad to keep on committing bad acts. "I'm not getting into heaven because of that thing I stole, or that woman I raped or that guy I killed. No reason for me to stop now."

Trying to mentally control the masses to maintain order is one thing and once it's works, you can now get into their wallets, but what about all those bad guys.

Let's introduce two new ideas. One is punishment after you die and the other gives the bad guys an incentive to be as evil as you want and you'll still get get into heaven, but ONLY if you pay the church money, then all is forgiven. (Oh and believe in jesus)

All of these concepts are just mental tools for manipulating the masses.

Can you not see that ?

Brother, I can TOTALLY see that. Except that born again Xianity isn't about being good to earn heaven. It's about recognizing one is bad. Polar difference. We can do this to get to heaven:

*Philanthropy of time
*Give money (as you wrote)
*Walk little old ladies across the street
*Stop fornicating
*Etc. you name it...

Or trust Jesus Christ.

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16-10-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 08:07 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Let's say I magically take hell away and remove this Jesus fellow too.
We are left with a club called paradise and a bouncer named god.
If you're a bad guy, you don't get in.
If you've lead a good life, you get past the bouncer.

That imaginary scenario worked well for a while but it encouraged people who had been bad to keep on committing bad acts. "I'm not getting into heaven because of that thing I stole, or that woman I raped or that guy I killed. No reason for me to stop now."

Trying to mentally control the masses to maintain order is one thing and once it's works, you can now get into their wallets, but what about all those bad guys.

Let's introduce two new ideas. One is punishment after you die and the other gives the bad guys an incentive to be as evil as you want and you'll still get get into heaven, but ONLY if you pay the church money, then all is forgiven. (Oh and believe in jesus)

All of these concepts are just mental tools for manipulating the masses.

Can you not see that ?

Brother, I can TOTALLY see that. Except that born again Xianity isn't about being good to earn heaven. It's about recognizing one is bad. Polar difference. We can do this to get to heaven:

*Philanthropy of time
*Give money (as you wrote)
*Walk little old ladies across the street
*Stop fornicating
*Etc. you name it...

Or trust Jesus Christ.

Maybe you're bad.

I'm not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 01:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 08:11 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Some of the Protestant denomination do not require more than saying you believe. The phrase is usually "I am saved" or "I have accepted Jesus as my personal savior"

But the last is nonsense. Jesus is my savior, yours and everyone else's. That's akin to saying "I've accepted Euclidean geometry is real." According to prophecy, Jesus came, died, rose. Trusting Him is eternal life.
You must not know many Baptist. Most of the ones I know truly think they need to do nothing but believe, not matter how crappy a person they are.

Jesus is no one's savior. At best he was a kind, counter cultural rabbi. There is nothing outside of the bible that documents his life or even mentions his existence. Even tho I believe there was some rabbi that the bible stories are based on, I severely doubt he was anymore divine than you or I.

I have no idea how geometry relates to theology. You lost me there.
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16-10-2014, 02:14 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 01:43 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But born again Christianity both provides salvation and the true incentive to behave. If I'm drowning and you rescue me, I will (most likely!) exhibit gratitude.

Oh, totally. I too often give profuse thanks for others rescuing me from situations they themselves put me in. Any old friend can save you from drowning; it takes someone truly great to save me from drowning only after having started to drown me.

Oh, wait. No, I don't, because I'm not insane.

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16-10-2014, 02:30 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 01:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Brother, I can TOTALLY see that. Except that born again Xianity isn't about being good to earn heaven. It's about recognizing one is bad. Polar difference. We can do this to get to heaven:

*Philanthropy of time
*Give money (as you wrote)
*Walk little old ladies across the street
*Stop fornicating
*Etc. you name it...

Or trust Jesus Christ.

Maybe you're bad.

I'm not.

Define terms, please. You are not bad, that is, you are on the good side of the good/bad scale because why?

I'll define my terms. I try to do good, and often do. Other times, I do bad things I don't want to do. Other times, I want to do good and then withhold good.

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16-10-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 02:00 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But the last is nonsense. Jesus is my savior, yours and everyone else's. That's akin to saying "I've accepted Euclidean geometry is real." According to prophecy, Jesus came, died, rose. Trusting Him is eternal life.
You must not know many Baptist. Most of the ones I know truly think they need to do nothing but believe, not matter how crappy a person they are.

Jesus is no one's savior. At best he was a kind, counter cultural rabbi. There is nothing outside of the bible that documents his life or even mentions his existence. Even tho I believe there was some rabbi that the bible stories are based on, I severely doubt he was anymore divine than you or I.

I have no idea how geometry relates to theology. You lost me there.

I'm saying that accepting the only god is like accepting the sky is blue. It's pointless. Once we recognize we are not perfect (see above where Chas will say he is good but will not say he is perfect)...

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