THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
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16-10-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 02:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:43 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But born again Christianity both provides salvation and the true incentive to behave. If I'm drowning and you rescue me, I will (most likely!) exhibit gratitude.

Oh, totally. I too often give profuse thanks for others rescuing me from situations they themselves put me in. Any old friend can save you from drowning; it takes someone truly great to save me from drowning only after having started to drown me.

Oh, wait. No, I don't, because I'm not insane.

Who went swimming? Who swam too far beyond their ability? Who disregarded the life guard's warnings?

Of course, you are missing the (ugh!) might makes right argument rephrased as "If you didn't know he'd drowned you, you'd be grateful for him saving you," which is like a tagline for a really bad Lifetime movie about a stalker/serial killer!

Or we can go into some really annoying Christian territory (he gave you lungs, breath, arms to swim, a heart, created the beach, ocean, etc.) and then your argument is reduced to:

He is the fish and the fishbowl, so why are you complaining about drowning? Drinking Beverage

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-10-2014, 02:53 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 02:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Maybe you're bad.

I'm not.

Define terms, please. You are not bad, that is, you are on the good side of the good/bad scale because why?

I'll define my terms. I try to do good, and often do. Other times, I do bad things I don't want to do. Other times, I want to do good and then withhold good.

I am not 'bad' in the sense you seem to intend - sinful. I was not born with sin, no one is.

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16-10-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 02:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, totally. I too often give profuse thanks for others rescuing me from situations they themselves put me in. Any old friend can save you from drowning; it takes someone truly great to save me from drowning only after having started to drown me.

Oh, wait. No, I don't, because I'm not insane.

Who went swimming? Who swam too far beyond their ability? Who disregarded the life guard's warnings?

Of course, you are missing the (ugh!) might makes right argument rephrased as "If you didn't know he'd drowned you, you'd be grateful for him saving you," which is like a tagline for a really bad Lifetime movie about a stalker/serial killer!

Or we can go into some really annoying Christian territory (he gave you lungs, breath, arms to swim, a heart, created the beach, ocean, etc.) and then your argument is reduced to:

He is the fish and the fishbowl, so why are you complaining about drowning? Drinking Beverage

By explaining away the perverse insanity of the deal we're apparently offered, you've "reduced" the "argument" (which is one, not an argument, and two, something you brought up) to a meaningless tautology. Are you going full Calvinist?

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16-10-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 02:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, totally. I too often give profuse thanks for others rescuing me from situations they themselves put me in. Any old friend can save you from drowning; it takes someone truly great to save me from drowning only after having started to drown me.

Oh, wait. No, I don't, because I'm not insane.

Who went swimming? Who swam too far beyond their ability? Who disregarded the life guard's warnings?

Who ignored what cjlr actually wrote?

You did, you buffoon.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Who went swimming? Who swam too far beyond their ability? Who disregarded the life guard's warnings?

Who ignored what cjlr actually wrote?

You did, you buffoon.

I was going to mention that, too, but it seems very much as though it would be wasted effort.

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16-10-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But it is the mind not illuminated with the light of love that is condemned, yes?

So, in other words, you invent definitions to suit yourself. That's not intended to be condescending, I'm serious. I have never heard that definition before you said it.

I have heard people say that hell is merely a separation from God; that our souls need God and the separation leaves us devastatingly miserable. That would still be a circumstance of being tortured every moment. God could just remove us from existence to save us from that hell.

(16-10-2014 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But it is the mind not illuminated with the light of love that is condemned, yes?

Not in all cases, no. According to most Christians that I've talked with, you can be full of love, but reject God and go to hell. Rejecting God here is not the same as not loving God. I reject unicorns too. It wouldn't make sense to say I don't love unicorns because I don't love or not love unicorns. They don't exist. What is condemned even when a person is full of love is merely someone who doesn't believe in God and was never given a chance to realize God exists. You will probably disagree with me on that last part, but if a god gave me a chance to know he exists, then I would know and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-10-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Brother, I can TOTALLY see that. Except that born again Xianity isn't about being good to earn heaven. It's about recognizing one is bad. Polar difference. We can do this to get to heaven:

*Philanthropy of time
*Give money (as you wrote)
*Walk little old ladies across the street
*Stop fornicating
*Etc. you name it...

Or trust Jesus Christ.
If I was locked in a room and couldn't get out and you said you were going to save me by killing yourself, I'd say "WTF, don't kill yourself, stay alive and bring me the key!" In the same way, it makes no sense that some guy's death 2,000 years ago somehow magically saved us and yet you want us to trust in him.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-10-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 03:50 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Brother, I can TOTALLY see that. Except that born again Xianity isn't about being good to earn heaven. It's about recognizing one is bad. Polar difference. We can do this to get to heaven:

*Philanthropy of time
*Give money (as you wrote)
*Walk little old ladies across the street
*Stop fornicating
*Etc. you name it...

Or trust Jesus Christ.
If I was locked in a room and couldn't get out and you said you were going to save me by killing yourself, I'd say "WTF, don't kill yourself, stay alive and bring me the key!" In the same way, it makes no sense that some guy's death 2,000 years ago somehow magically saved us and yet you want us to trust in him.

It also doesn't seem to me as if his death really accomplished anything. As far as I can see, mankind is just as sinful and depraved now as we were before Christianity. If anything, it just gave us another reason to kill each other.
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16-10-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 03:59 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It also doesn't seem to me as if his death really accomplished anything. As far as I can see, mankind is just as sinful and depraved now as we were before Christianity. If anything, it just gave us another reason to kill each other.
True, but their reply would be that Jesus opened the door, it's up to each individual to walk through. So the continued sin just shows people haven't walked through. But I don't see how Jesus opened any door by killing himself. How can his death be related to forgiving us for sins at all? We sin, he pays the price. We get the forgiveness. Huh?

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-10-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(16-10-2014 02:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:00 PM)wazzel Wrote:  You must not know many Baptist. Most of the ones I know truly think they need to do nothing but believe, not matter how crappy a person they are.

Jesus is no one's savior. At best he was a kind, counter cultural rabbi. There is nothing outside of the bible that documents his life or even mentions his existence. Even tho I believe there was some rabbi that the bible stories are based on, I severely doubt he was anymore divine than you or I.

I have no idea how geometry relates to theology. You lost me there.

I'm saying that accepting the only god is like accepting the sky is blue. It's pointless. Once we recognize we are not perfect (see above where Chas will say he is good but will not say he is perfect)...

What god out of the thousands out there is the true one? Once you narrow that down with out question we can work on who's version of that god we follow. Every one sees the same blue sky. Your point fails.
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