THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
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21-10-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(21-10-2014 11:55 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'd redact that a bit. It's not gymnastics:

Murder is when the created kills the created.

Wrath/judgment/justified/I'm God you're not (don't really care if you whine about the might makes right argument!) is when the creator kills the created.

WAIT! Before you fire back: have you had your pet spayed/neutered? Smile

By that logic a parent could kill their kids, legally and morally. Sounds messed up to me.

My dog is not a human. My spaying something is not slaughtering it.

However, you do realize you are asserting that god has the right to kill under this system?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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21-10-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(21-10-2014 11:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 11:55 AM)wazzel Wrote:  By that logic a parent could kill their kids, legally and morally. Sounds messed up to me.

My dog is not a human. My spaying something is not slaughtering it.

However, you do realize you are asserting that god has the right to kill under this system?
Actually I am not, you are. I said it is messed up. How can something that does not exist have rights?
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21-10-2014, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2014 12:20 PM by DemonicLemon.)
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(21-10-2014 11:56 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(20-10-2014 11:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What evidence do you have for this?

**Do you mean textual evidence or anecdotal evidence about God's kingdom works on Earth? Or the written testimony of the Lord of the living and the dead?


Then why wouldn't God explicitly forbid rape?

**Have you read in the Bible about the conscience? Conscience convicts sinners of sin apart from law, as in Romans 5 for one example. The fact that an atheist knows and testifies that rape is wrong (majority of them) shows the natural law fact of it... do you agree?

If an atheist knows rape is bad, then why does the bible say it's okay if you pay her dad fifty silver pieces.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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21-10-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(21-10-2014 11:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  My dog is not a human. My spaying something is not slaughtering it.

However, you do realize you are asserting that god has the right to kill under this system?

So you're saying that God, the source and anchor of all morality adheres to nothing but a might-makes-right paradigm?

Seems fitting for a bronze-age deity, actually.
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21-10-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(21-10-2014 11:56 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(20-10-2014 11:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Then why wouldn't God explicitly forbid rape?

**Have you read in the Bible about the conscience? Conscience convicts sinners of sin apart from law, as in Romans 5 for one example. The fact that an atheist knows and testifies that rape is wrong (majority of them) shows the natural law fact of it... do you agree?

No. It means that as time marched on, and the Bible didn't, we found certain things like rape and slavery to be distasteful. The Bible kept on saying what it had always been saying (or not saying). You haven't demonstrated that this is anything other than cultural mores.

And before you try to start reasserting "natural law" again, note how you have to jump through hoops to imply that God forbids rape using invisible ink, or something. Note how Thou shall not rape doesn't make the cut for the ten commandments, but don't use my name like a swear word because it hurts my feelings does.

It would have been that easy, and YHWH couldn't trouble himself to do it. You're going to have to do better than that if you want to convince me that the god of the Bible cares about rape.
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22-10-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(21-10-2014 01:10 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 11:56 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  **Have you read in the Bible about the conscience? Conscience convicts sinners of sin apart from law, as in Romans 5 for one example. The fact that an atheist knows and testifies that rape is wrong (majority of them) shows the natural law fact of it... do you agree?

No. It means that as time marched on, and the Bible didn't, we found certain things like rape and slavery to be distasteful. The Bible kept on saying what it had always been saying (or not saying). You haven't demonstrated that this is anything other than cultural mores.

And before you try to start reasserting "natural law" again, note how you have to jump through hoops to imply that God forbids rape using invisible ink, or something. Note how Thou shall not rape doesn't make the cut for the ten commandments, but don't use my name like a swear word because it hurts my feelings does.

It would have been that easy, and YHWH couldn't trouble himself to do it. You're going to have to do better than that if you want to convince me that the god of the Bible cares about rape.

I would likely be more direct. But I'm not wishing to offend you. So let me start with this disclaimer: I believe in evolution.

Jesus said to treat people the way we want to be treated. Rape enhances survivability and propagates a species. (Believe me, if you like post-apocalyptic Sci-Fi, there's almost always rape on the table---no table pun intended).

Or put it another way, Jesus said to love God. In the movie Zardoz, Sean Connery's character rapes a woman and says he's doing it to show his love of the god Zardoz. Why is it that most people would say instantly, "That's not a Christian god, then!"

If you believe rape is not cared about by god, that's your issue. But if you believe humans have developed cultural mores against rape despite the fact that it's a part of animal behavior, why would you use it in an argument? I try to present only arguments I stand behind morally and ethically.

If you think rape is wrong, I'd love to know why you think it's wrong. If you think rape is an animal behavior that is civilized against, if you will... what are you doing here with it?

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-10-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
Biblical response to rape: rapist pays victim's dad money and marries the poor girl.

Preferred response to rape: robocop shoots rapist in the dick.

Robocop is more moral than God.

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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22-10-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would likely be more direct. But I'm not wishing to offend you. So let me start with this disclaimer: I believe in evolution.

Jesus said to treat people the way we want to be treated. Rape enhances survivability and propagates a species. (Believe me, if you like post-apocalyptic Sci-Fi, there's almost always rape on the table---no table pun intended).

This is a non sequitur and doesn't address anything I said.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Or put it another way, Jesus said to love God.

Again, you're saying that God "forbids" it using invisible ink.

He had plenty of opportunities to flat-out forbid it, and he didn't. He did, however, take the time to tell us not to use his name like a swear word because it hurts his feelings.

Best case: God is more overtly concerned with his feelings than whether or not people get raped, but he doesn't like rapes, and he hopes we'll all figure that out through his vague implications.

Worst case: God is more overtly concerned with his feelings than whether or not people get raped, because he doesn't care about rapes.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you believe rape is not cared about by god, that's your issue.

No, it's pretty fucking overt.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But if you believe humans have developed cultural mores against rape despite the fact that it's a part of animal behavior, why would you use it in an argument?

This makes no sense.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you think rape is wrong, I'd love to know why you think it's wrong.

Hint: absolute morality doesn't exist (or at least, it's never been demonstrated to exist).


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you think rape is an animal behavior that is civilized against, if you will... what are you doing here with it?

This makes no sense.
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22-10-2014, 02:27 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(22-10-2014 01:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would likely be more direct. But I'm not wishing to offend you. So let me start with this disclaimer: I believe in evolution.

Jesus said to treat people the way we want to be treated. Rape enhances survivability and propagates a species. (Believe me, if you like post-apocalyptic Sci-Fi, there's almost always rape on the table---no table pun intended).

This is a non sequitur and doesn't address anything I said.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Or put it another way, Jesus said to love God.

Again, you're saying that God "forbids" it using invisible ink.

He had plenty of opportunities to flat-out forbid it, and he didn't. He did, however, take the time to tell us not to use his name like a swear word because it hurts his feelings.

Best case: God is more overtly concerned with his feelings than whether or not people get raped, but he doesn't like rapes, and he hopes we'll all figure that out through his vague implications.

Worst case: God is more overtly concerned with his feelings than whether or not people get raped, because he doesn't care about rapes.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you believe rape is not cared about by god, that's your issue.

No, it's pretty fucking overt.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But if you believe humans have developed cultural mores against rape despite the fact that it's a part of animal behavior, why would you use it in an argument?

This makes no sense.


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you think rape is wrong, I'd love to know why you think it's wrong.

Hint: absolute morality doesn't exist (or at least, it's never been demonstrated to exist).


(22-10-2014 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you think rape is an animal behavior that is civilized against, if you will... what are you doing here with it?

This makes no sense.

I'll rephrase then. 1) The Bible says that God created government and authorities to deal with evil people including rapists. So, according to the text, he cares. 2) I personally think rape is bad in my conscience and I agree with the scriptures, what I'm not understanding is how you know it's bad. Please explain.

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22-10-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(22-10-2014 10:26 AM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  Biblical response to rape: rapist pays victim's dad money and marries the poor girl.

Preferred response to rape: robocop shoots rapist in the dick.

Robocop is more moral than God.

How do you feel, then, about biblical, capital punishment for moral crimes?

Thank you.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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