THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-10-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(22-10-2014 02:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-10-2014 01:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  This is a non sequitur and doesn't address anything I said.



Again, you're saying that God "forbids" it using invisible ink.

He had plenty of opportunities to flat-out forbid it, and he didn't. He did, however, take the time to tell us not to use his name like a swear word because it hurts his feelings.

Best case: God is more overtly concerned with his feelings than whether or not people get raped, but he doesn't like rapes, and he hopes we'll all figure that out through his vague implications.

Worst case: God is more overtly concerned with his feelings than whether or not people get raped, because he doesn't care about rapes.



No, it's pretty fucking overt.



This makes no sense.



Hint: absolute morality doesn't exist (or at least, it's never been demonstrated to exist).



This makes no sense.

I'll rephrase then. 1) The Bible says that God created government and authorities to deal with evil people including rapists. So, according to the text, he cares. 2) I personally think rape is bad in my conscience and I agree with the scriptures, what I'm not understanding is how you know it's bad. Please explain.

Any version of the Golden Rule.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
23-10-2014, 05:48 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(22-10-2014 02:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'll rephrase then. 1) The Bible says that God created government and authorities to deal with evil people including rapists. So, according to the text, he cares.

Where does the Bible explicitly state that God created government to deal with rapists?


(22-10-2014 02:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2) I personally think rape is bad in my conscience and I agree with the scriptures, what I'm not understanding is how you know it's bad. Please explain.

I already covered that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(23-10-2014 05:48 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(22-10-2014 02:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'll rephrase then. 1) The Bible says that God created government and authorities to deal with evil people including rapists. So, according to the text, he cares.

Where does the Bible explicitly state that God created government to deal with rapists?
Seriously it get's annoying when they get to the point where they have to start making shit up.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(24-10-2014 10:10 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  
(23-10-2014 05:48 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Where does the Bible explicitly state that God created government to deal with rapists?
Seriously it get's annoying when they get to the point where they have to start making shit up.

My guess is this is as far as the thought process went:

1) All morality comes from God
2) God communicates his wishes with us through the Bible
3) I feel rape is immoral
Therefore the Bible must say rape is wrong
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RobbyPants's post
28-10-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(24-10-2014 10:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(24-10-2014 10:10 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  Seriously it get's annoying when they get to the point where they have to start making shit up.

My guess is this is as far as the thought process went:

1) All morality comes from God
2) God communicates his wishes with us through the Bible
3) I feel rape is immoral
Therefore the Bible must say rape is wrong

My question was to DemonicLemon, but you were free to answer. I try to refrain from using language like "atheists must all think that" and I'd thank you to do the same. My thought process was actually:

1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-10-2014 10:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  My guess is this is as far as the thought process went:

1) All morality comes from God
2) God communicates his wishes with us through the Bible
3) I feel rape is immoral
Therefore the Bible must say rape is wrong

My question was to DemonicLemon, but you were free to answer. I try to refrain from using language like "atheists must all think that" and I'd thank you to do the same. My thought process was actually:

1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.

You are saying that an atheist has no justification for considering violence to another human to be wrong?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
28-10-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-10-2014 10:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  My guess is this is as far as the thought process went:

1) All morality comes from God
2) God communicates his wishes with us through the Bible
3) I feel rape is immoral
Therefore the Bible must say rape is wrong

My question was to DemonicLemon, but you were free to answer. I try to refrain from using language like "atheists must all think that" and I'd thank you to do the same. My thought process was actually:

1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.
Why would the existence of any deity make rape wrong? If the deity is wrong in it's barbarism towards the human race, then it is wrong, but we decide whether this deity is wrong, not the deity. In fact, we made up that deity that's in the bible, didn't we? And those particular scribes/priests that wrote the ancient morals in the bible didn't find a compelling reason to state clearly in the ten commandments or anywhere else in their book of myth that rape was wrong.

Another example of where the writers of the bible are firmly ensconced in the morals of their contemporaries , it has no shining light pointing the way out of barbarism, it just asserts that IT is right and all others are wrong. YHWH was just as warlike and savage as the other gods of that time Molech, Chemosh, Baal, etc.

Hell, YHWH was even defeated in battle by Chemosh in 2 Kings. I suggest you burn your bible and bow down to Chemosh, he won't be pleased by his weak little brother YHWH being worshiped over him.

Or dismiss it all as ancient superstition......

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2014, 01:42 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are saying that an atheist has no justification for considering violence to another human to be wrong?

He's tired of his religion being associated with rape apologia.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

No, my complaint was about a complete absence of any rules or laws in the Bible explicitly forbidding rape without worrying about if the woman was a virgin or not. This whole "rape verse" thing is you wiggling out of that, as you changed the subject.


(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

Non-sequitur/failure to understand evolution.

Protip: evolution is the source of altruistic behavior.


(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.

You're changing the subject again.


Remember YHWH could not be troubled to make an explicit prohibition on rape, yet several times, he said don't use my name like a swear word because it hurts my feelings.

I know you can't wrap your head around subjective morality, but the long and the short of it is any morals we have against rape came from humans because you will not find it in the Bible. You will, however, find plenty of God getting upset when his feelings are hurt.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
28-10-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: THIS is why Christianity is the RIGHT religion
(28-10-2014 12:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-10-2014 10:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  My guess is this is as far as the thought process went:

1) All morality comes from God
2) God communicates his wishes with us through the Bible
3) I feel rape is immoral
Therefore the Bible must say rape is wrong

My question was to DemonicLemon, but you were free to answer. I try to refrain from using language like "atheists must all think that" and I'd thank you to do the same. My thought process was actually:

1. I'm sick of hearing the Bible "rape" verse when the context is clearly a fine must be paid for a couple that sleeps together by consensual agreement but where a virginity is taken/a dowry destroyed. EVERY time EVERY atheist mentions the "rape verse" they ALWAYS neglect the other verses about a couple punished when the woman does not cry out - if she cries "Rape!" it's his crime but if she doesn't cry against the attacker a "judge" on site would know it was consensual...

2. I'm tired of rape being used as a "weapon" against xianity when you can only use some kind of weak reciprocity/golden rule argument against it. If we believe in evolution (I do and I have a dollar that says you do--again, not to put words in your mouth but you're an atheist so you likely don't believe in creation) then we ought to be "responsible" and agree that rape can propagate the species and may even be a survivability enhancement that we are "fighting against our evolutionary programming".

3. This is just like the NTS on the other thread "Q can't define Christianity, not that we can, so anything he says is NTS" and now we have "c'mon, the Bible condones rape even though I have little reason to say rape is wrong". Feel free to continue to tell me how badly the Bible condones rape once you prove rape is wrong. And no, "Look at Q, he things rape is right" isn't the point.

In the Bible, God repeatedly commands the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child, and beast, except for the virgin girls. It's not just condoning rape, it's very nearly commanding rape.

The point is that the Bible is not a source of your morals any more than The 120 Days of Sodom by the Marquis de Sade is. At least, I hope not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: