TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
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14-02-2013, 06:57 PM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
Now you've hit on a different problem entirely. This is where I have some experience, and of course my view is biased because of my experiences, just as yours are. I lived for twenty years out in the middle of nowhere. If shit happens there is no point in calling the cops until after its over and done with (for most stuff.) Like I mentioned earlier in the thread I live in a county which is pretty large. It would take me about an hour to get to some of the remote areas in the county from my current house. It is also a county that isn't very populated. As a consequence it can take the cops a VERY long time to respond to an emergency, at night there are only two cops on patrol, and by on patrol I mean they are probably asleep in their cop car somewhere. That isn't an exaggeration, I know who they are, and my father-in-law has had to wake one of them up by banging on his window and telling him to get off the property because he was trespassing...the cop was asleep on duty while trespassing. In places like where I live if you don't protect your shit, no one else will either. In the remotest parts of the county they are basically on their own, I've never seen a cop go anywhere near there so you better believe all the folks that live high up on the mountain are all packing heat, they have too.

I'm not saying that anyone deserves to die for stealing a trashcan, but if I have a theif on my property, even if they are just stealing a measly trashcan I'm going to make it clear that I have a weapon. If that means taking a shot into the mountain side, or walking on to the porch toting a gun then I will do so. Will I shoot them? No, not unless I feel I am in any kind of danger, but if it happens at night, I'll call the cops afterward.

As far as Memphis goes, yeah that place is mostly a shit hole, good barbeque though. Stay in the right area out there if your going. I'd rate it slightly better than Detroit.

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14-02-2013, 07:14 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2013 07:39 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
I'm not pro-gun or anti-gun.

To prevent betrayal by these representatives, the fundamental laws should see to it that elections are not carried on by factions, intrigues, bribery, or in the midst of public tumult.

Which I think is an important thing to consider. Not to make a decision on gun laws until the people have calmed down. The last thing you want is an irrational, emotionally charged mob, with pitchforks and torches.

I'm not sure if I'm for or against this decision to reject a law that would ban firearms from parking lots.

Argument against it.

Ultimately I think that this law would simply add an additional charge for people who are using firearms to commit crimes, and possibly people who used a firearm to disable the assailant.

I don't think it would be economical to do parking lot sweeps either...

Argument for it.

It would in law abiding citizens reduce the availability of firearms in parking lots to those who might use them in a bad way.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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14-02-2013, 08:02 PM
Re: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
That certainly is a different issue and one faced by most in the county I grew up in. Here's the thing though, the need for cops is minimal in the stix. More people use guns protecting their animals from coyotes than anything else. But the issue you raise is not one of needing more vigilante justice, but better law enforcement. And that's not going to happen as long as people remain of the opinion that they don't need them because they have their own guns.

And in any event, the laws and regulations we need to improve safety and change our gun culture would not have an impact on people living in areas like the one you live in. If you need them, you do what is necessary to own them and ensure you follow the law as you already do.

Evolve
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14-02-2013, 09:28 PM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
What? I never said vigilante justice, and certainly not what I meant. Protecting yourself, others and your property isn't vigilante justice.

In situations like I'm in, it would make no financial sense to hire a ton of cops. That isn't the solution. Frankly, I think the problem has already sorted itself. We don't have many people getting shot to death. You just don't like the idea of regular folks brandishing firearms, but I think that we're doing alright with that. In the twentyone years I've lived in the area I can only remember a handful of people dieing from gunshot wounds. One was a murder suicide, another was a cop got killed by someone who was from out of state and a fugitive. I can only recall one other murder, and I don't recall the details of that one. On the other hand two of my grandmothers have stopped their house from being robbed my my grandfathers were away by firing non-lethal shots. One ran away with shit in his underwear, the other ran away with shot in his ass.

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15-02-2013, 06:25 AM
Re: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
Then you shouldn't have a problem with more regulations and licensing, etc. The regulations aren't meant to adversely affect normal gun users.

And I acknowledged the fact that most use them normally, but you are partially right in saying that I would rather not allow the average idiot the right to wield such weaponry.

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15-02-2013, 11:25 AM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
"They don't deserve to be shot or even have a gun pointed at them. Just call the effing cops."

So they can do the pointing and shooting? Or kidnap the kid and throw him in a cage?

What good would that do anyone?
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15-02-2013, 11:28 AM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
(15-02-2013 11:25 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  "They don't deserve to be shot or even have a gun pointed at them. Just call the effing cops."

So they can do the pointing and shooting? Or kidnap the kid and throw him in a cage?

What good would that do anyone?
What? Blink

You mean you would not rather trained professionals handle situations such as these instead of the average citizen?

Do you just want cops to be gotten rid of?

Jails, prisons, and rehabilitation centers useless in your eyes?

What are you talking about? What kind of world do you want to live in?

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15-02-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
Those trained professionals trump us regular citizens in instances of domestic violence, divorce, suicide and mental disorders such as sociopathy. Being trained on when and how to shoot someone doesn't change a person's nature. In fact, when a person starts out deluded and is then given power over others, the results are often deadly.

In as much as cops are defined today, yes, I want to be rid of them.


Jails, prisons and rehab centers is kind of like saying apples, oranges and boat propellers. Rehabilitation is obviously the best thing for offenders and society writ large but since some people aren't willing to submit to rehabilitation, there are instances where people would have to be forcibly detained. However, the places they're detained now only serve to make them even more dangerous. Not to mention, the current system of "justice" doesn't even consider restitution, which is what I want if someone steals my trash can. Locking the thief in a rape room won't get me another trash can but it will ensure that when he's let out, he will be even more inclined to steal.... or worse. And to boot, the social stigma that will be attached to him will only serve to keep him from being able to secure gainful employment, which will provide further incentive for him to steal... or worse.


What I want is to live in a society that is free of coercion, violence and those who would coerce and commit violence against others. I understand that violence and coercion cannot be completely eradicated but the current system of giving a small group of people the power to coerce and commit violence against me is certainly not working. It never has and it never will.
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15-02-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
(15-02-2013 11:44 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Those trained professionals trump us regular citizens in instances of domestic violence, divorce, suicide and mental disorders such as sociopathy. Being trained on when and how to shoot someone doesn't change a person's nature. In fact, when a person starts out deluded and is then given power over others, the results are often deadly.

In as much as cops are defined today, yes, I want to be rid of them.


Jails, prisons and rehab centers is kind of like saying apples, oranges and boat propellers. Rehabilitation is obviously the best thing for offenders and society writ large but since some people aren't willing to submit to rehabilitation, there are instances where people would have to be forcibly detained. However, the places they're detained now only serve to make them even more dangerous. Not to mention, the current system of "justice" doesn't even consider restitution, which is what I want if someone steals my trash can. Locking the thief in a rape room won't get me another trash can but it will ensure that when he's let out, he will be even more inclined to steal.... or worse. And to boot, the social stigma that will be attached to him will only serve to keep him from being able to secure gainful employment, which will provide further incentive for him to steal... or worse.


What I want is to live in a society that is free of coercion, violence and those who would coerce and commit violence against others. I understand that violence and coercion cannot be completely eradicated but the current system of giving a small group of people the power to coerce and commit violence against me is certainly not working. It never has and it never will.
Our jails suck. Rehab is better than being locked in a cage because it addresses the issue of helping the individual become a productive member of society.

So, our trained professionals are just a waste. Well then, no need for cops. Or Military. Or firefighters.


Wait, maybe the stress of the job is partly to blame for the personal issues of those individuals in these high-stress jobs?

Your solution to solving our issues in this country is to let people police themselves? You want William Lane Craig deciding whether or not you are violating his religious freedoms? You want the guy down the street that does not like you to have as much authority as you do on what happens to you?

Cops and our legal system aren't perfect, you're not saying anything new there. But that is an issue separate of guns and gun rights. The point is supposed to be that cops, judges, lawyers, and juries can be impartial and objective. Because the average person can't.

Your solution might make sense at the scale of a small community where people could effectively self-regulate. But we live in a community that is basically global but certainly national at this point. And we need the objective and impartial system to protect us from one another.

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15-02-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: TN: New Gun Measure Passed House After 6 Minute Hearing
"So, our trained professionals are just a waste. Well then, no need for cops. Or Military. Or firefighters."

What do firefighters have to do with this discussion?




"Wait, maybe the stress of the job is partly to blame for the personal issues of those individuals in these high-stress jobs"

There is nothing that could ever happen at my job that would cause me to come home and hit my wife or child or dog. However, if I were a person who was capable of being violent and coercing others, being a cop, a soldier or even a judge would kinda put me in that position.

"Your solution to solving our issues in this country is to let people police themselves?"


I don't recall being asked what my solution is, nor do I remember having shared it. But since you mentioned what you did... I think it's safe to say that most of us live 99.9% of our lives resolving conflicts with friends, family, neighbors and business associates without the need of cops and courts. I know that's the case with me and given what little experience I've had with being "protected" by cops and law courts, I'd not call them at all if I had it to do over.


"You want the guy down the street that does not like you to have as much authority as you do on what happens to you?"

If someone chooses to attack me, rob me, etc, that doesn't mean they have authority over me... it just means they decided to violate my property rights. It's when the guy down the street who doesn't like me is given a gun and a blue costume that I really begin to worry about him because then, he not only has the authority to violate my property rights, he's obligated to if what I'm doing offends a man in a suit somewhere.

"The point is supposed to be that cops, judges, lawyers, and juries can
be impartial and objective. Because the average person can't."



Does donning a blue costume or a black robe change a man from average to morally superior? Does that cloth make a complete stranger better "suited" to decide for me how I should conduct my affairs?
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