TTA: Vision for the Future
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01-01-2015, 12:17 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
(31-12-2014 11:20 PM)gofish! Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 06:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  The allusion was to one specific blathering hilltop hippy, methinks.

Laugh out load

Yep...what DLJ said. If I want to bash hippies, I'll start a new thread. Smile

That sounds like a plan.

Looking forward to it. Big Grin

Angel

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01-01-2015, 12:31 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
(01-01-2015 12:17 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 11:20 PM)gofish! Wrote:  Yep...what DLJ said. If I want to bash hippies, I'll start a new thread. Smile

That sounds like a plan.

Looking forward to it. Big Grin

Angel

Oh you'd like that, wouldn't you now?

"Mommy said there were no monsters, no real ones; but there are"
(Newt to Ripley, "Aliens").

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N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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01-01-2015, 05:18 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
Getting back to the OP, and at the risk of appearing a spammer, I would like to seriously suggest the rule of humility.

Whilst I appreciate that you use "Don't be a dick" as a neat shorthand to encompass a range of undesirable behaviours (in much the same way as the sanskrit word "satya" arguably means so much more than "truth"), the risk remains that it can be misinterpreted

It could be taken to mean "don't be robust in your language" or even be construed to disallow ad hominems, which would be a shame: one of the things I have come to really appreciate is the lack of such prohibitions.

It could also be construed as licence to be the biggest dick of all, as surely "my faith in the word of God/Yaweh/Allah/FSM means I am not wrong and everyone else is".

Maybe humility is not the right word, but I suggest it in the context of humility to truth, humility in thought, word and deed. It seems it would allow raucous debate with eventual intellectual integrity ("yeah, actually I was wrong in that") and more easily call out those who argue from egotistical and narcissistic motives.

In short, it would take the "I" out of the discussion.

Thoughts?

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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01-01-2015, 06:53 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
(01-01-2015 05:18 AM)gofish! Wrote:  Getting back to the OP, and at the risk of appearing a spammer, I would like to seriously suggest the rule of humility.

Whilst I appreciate that you use "Don't be a dick" as a neat shorthand to encompass a range of undesirable behaviours (in much the same way as the sanskrit word "satya" arguably means so much more than "truth"), the risk remains that it can be misinterpreted

It could be taken to mean "don't be robust in your language" or even be construed to disallow ad hominems, which would be a shame: one of the things I have come to really appreciate is the lack of such prohibitions.

It could also be construed as licence to be the biggest dick of all, as surely "my faith in the word of God/Yaweh/Allah/FSM means I am not wrong and everyone else is".

Maybe humility is not the right word, but I suggest it in the context of humility to truth, humility in thought, word and deed. It seems it would allow raucous debate with eventual intellectual integrity ("yeah, actually I was wrong in that") and more easily call out those who argue from egotistical and narcissistic motives.

In short, it would take the "I" out of the discussion.

Thoughts?

Fair comments.

This thread was intended as merely some throw-away humour in a long-winded (who, me?) way of simply wishing everyone a Happy New Year but there have been some interesting suggestions thrown about (e.g. Saint Evil's suggestions in post #13).

The way I see it, a society's / group's culture is simply the combination of individual behaviour.
An individual's behaviour is a combination of organisational ethics (e.g. the forum's policies, rules and constitution (if we had one)) and the individual's ethics which will be diverse.

I think there already is 'humility' in the culture. Not because it's written in the rules but because there is a majority of members here who already behave that way.

Having said that, there's no reason why there couldn't be a 'how to' guide in our 'how to...' section that gives hints and tips on 'how to get the best from your forum experience'.

Brownshirt and Bozo are good examples of what not to do i.e. "how to irritate people from your first post". They committed no crimes but they forgot the (non-Aspie) human expectation for a little small-talk before flexing their typing muscles.

Why not start a post to seek some suggestions from everyone / find out what constitutes acceptable behaviour?

I think that would be quite interesting...

... of course, expect loadsa quips.

Big Grin

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01-01-2015, 07:01 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
Taking the "I" out of discussions is a good idea.

I've often wondered if intellectual forums would be better if there were no screen names for members to attach their egos to. Just a collection of ideas, and no record of who typed them, because that's irrelevant unimportant information. All members would have the screen name "typist", or "member".

The thing is though, you'll NEVER get the "I" out of the discussions using the "almost anybody can say almost anything" publishing model used on almost all forums.

When inclusiveness and "free speech" are made the primary values, an inevitable slide towards the lowest common denominator begins. The subject of "me" will sweep across the pages and gradually push aside almost everything else.

Evidence: On some forums I've visited recently :-) the majority of posts are little more than an attempt by the poster to get the biggest ego inflation bump they can obtain for the fewest possible keystrokes. Me, me, me, me, me, on page after page after page.

What is the mission of the forum?

If it's to be clubhouse, then one not worry too much about the publishing model, and "almost anything goes" is probably good. If that is the only mission, then this forum should probably be hidden from visitors to Seth's site, lest they become confused that "atheist thinking" equals "ego blurbing".

If at least part of the mission of the forum is to display rational thought in action as the alternative to religion, at least part of the forum has to use the "letter to the editor" model. In that model, anybody can submit a post (best renamed "article") and an editor publishes only those submissions that meet some quality standard.

Getting the "I" out of at least some discussions is a great idea, but at least so far, there's little evidence that's really what the current membership wants. Perhaps you just want to say it, but not actually do it?
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01-01-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
Quote:Brownshirt and Bozo are good examples of what not to do i.e. "how to irritate people from your first post".

This is false. Sadly, it took me longer than one post to irritate people. I have so much to learn yet! :-)

Seriously....

The reason you guys are so concerned with this "we are irritated!" business is because, as the majority of posts across the forum clearly demonstrate, the primary reason for your participation here is inflating egos.

Thus, when some Bozo dickhead comes along and displays limited social skills, you become OBSESSED with that person and their impact upon your ego.

People who were primarily interested in the stated topic, atheist thinking, would observe the Bozo has limited social skills and say to themselves "too bad for him", and then return to their topic focused discussions.

You guys are trying to cure the dickhead problem in the least rational manner.

As you surely know, the human race is filled with vast armies of dickheads extending out over the horizon to infinity. There is exactly zero chance you're going to be able to manage them all, especially in a forum based on "anything goes".

The practical rational realistic thing to do is manage the one brain you actually have some control over, yours. Don't focus on managing the bozo dickheads, focus on managing your RELATIONSHIP with bozo dickheads.

Bozos can only dent your ego if you are focused on your ego. Otherwise, they are powerless, and thus don't need to be managed.

This is probably going to be challenging here, because forum atheist culture is unsophisticated and focused outwards, on somebody else, that guy over there, and why he's wrong and so on.

Focusing on everybody else is a transparent mechanism for hiding from yourself. He sagely said, while typing about those people over there. :-)
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01-01-2015, 07:27 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
Im sure seth has a lot of contact with many like minded people like him... so how about a trusted affiliates page??

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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01-01-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
(01-01-2015 07:01 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Taking the "I" out of discussions is a good idea.

I've often wondered if intellectual forums would be better if there were no screen names for members to attach their egos to. Just a collection of ideas, and no record of who typed them, because that's irrelevant unimportant information. All members would have the screen name "typist", or "member".

That would be confusing as hell. Since that will never happen here, I wonder why you typed that in the first place

(01-01-2015 07:01 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  The thing is though, you'll NEVER get the "I" out of the discussions using the "almost anybody can say almost anything" publishing model used on almost all forums.

When inclusiveness and "free speech" are made the primary values, an inevitable slide towards the lowest common denominator begins. The subject of "me" will sweep across the pages and gradually push aside almost everything else.

Evidence: On some forums I've visited recently :-) the majority of posts are little more than an attempt by the poster to get the biggest ego inflation bump they can obtain for the fewest possible keystrokes. Me, me, me, me, me, on page after page after page.

Is it positvely evil to think about what's good one's self now? Again, this bullshit master thesis of yours hasn't happened here, nor will it. TTA is full of kind people who will think of themselves and others, just like most of the human race.

(01-01-2015 07:01 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  What is the mission of the forum?

TTA is on a diplomatic misson to Aldeeran; Who the fuck cares?

(01-01-2015 07:01 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  If it's to be clubhouse, then one not worry too much about the publishing model, and "almost anything goes" is probably good. If that is the only mission, then this forum should probably be hidden from visitors to Seth's site, lest they become confused that "atheist thinking" equals "ego blurbing".

If at least part of the mission of the forum is to display rational thought in action as the alternative to religion, at least part of the forum has to use the "letter to the editor" model. In that model, anybody can submit a post (best renamed "article") and an editor publishes only those submissions that meet some quality standard.

Getting the "I" out of at least some discussions is a great idea, but at least so far, there's little evidence that's really what the current membership wants. Perhaps you just want to say it, but not actually do it?

Bla bla bla bla. If you're such a fucking wise sage on the topic of forums, why don't you just create a forum for yourself where you can make up the rules? Because you won't get any power here. You're wasting your time, and you're pissing people off. Leave.

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01-01-2015, 07:36 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
Blah Blah speaks...again, and again, and again...

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01-01-2015, 07:53 AM
RE: TTA: Vision for the Future
(01-01-2015 07:31 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Bla bla bla bla. If you're such a fucking wise sage on the topic of forums, why don't you just create a forum for yourself where you can make up the rules?

I've come to see that this is good advice, thank you, which I am now working on. You're right, the only way I'm going to get what I want is make it myself.

(01-01-2015 07:31 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Because you won't get any power here. You're wasting your time, and you're pissing people off. Leave.

Hmm.. I don't recall saying I wanted any power here.

Wasting my time? Yep, agreed.

Pissing people off? Yep, agreed.

Members here have given me (an anonymous stranger on the Internet) control of their brains, and allowed me to manipulate their emotional experience in any way I want.

All I have to do is type a few words like "you guys are so wrong" or "prove that reason is qualified" or "what a bunch of quipers" and you rush out to meet me so you can embrace the victim experience.

But of course, if you admitted to yourselves that is is you who are CHOOSING to read my posts over and over day after day, and you who are CHOOSING to experience those posts as annoying etc, that would pop the victim fantasy bubble and ruin everything.

If you are not CHOOSING what you read and how you experience it, then I am the master of your mind and you are my slave. Do you prefer this explanation?
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