Table Salt
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10-12-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: Table Salt
(10-12-2013 01:17 PM)viole Wrote:  So, are you telling me that:

1) nature is orderly because of God, and
Yes.
Quote:2) there are violations of this order because of God
?
Yes.
Quote:This is logically equivalent to

3) whatever happens, it is because of God
And?

I suppose we could say that nature is random due to quantum mechanics, but as the macro world is made of quantum stuff and is orderly, nature is orderly due to quantum mechanics. Whatever happens, is due to quantum mechanics. It is, after all, the most successful theory in the history of ever.
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11-12-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: Table Salt
(10-12-2013 01:44 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 01:17 PM)viole Wrote:  So, are you telling me that:

1) nature is orderly because of God, and
Yes.
Quote:2) there are violations of this order because of God
?
Yes.
Quote:This is logically equivalent to

3) whatever happens, it is because of God
And?

And... You cannot use both (regularity/miracles) as an argument of God. To conclude that whatever happens is because of god, might be your belief, but does not add a lot towards convincing anyone.

Actually, if we think about it, you cannot use even only one of them.

Ciao

- viole
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11-12-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: Table Salt
(11-12-2013 03:09 PM)viole Wrote:  And... You cannot use both (regularity/miracles) as an argument of God.
I don't recall doing so.
Quote:Actually, if we think about it, you cannot use even only one of them.
Speak for yourself, and feel free to expand on it.
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11-12-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Table Salt
(10-12-2013 12:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 09:00 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  'well, were you there?!'
This implies that evolution has been and gone.

The correct answer is "Yes, I am we are there"
Fixt!

(10-12-2013 12:58 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 12:45 PM)viole Wrote:  What is claimed is equivalent to: Nature is orderly except in those cases when it isn't. We call the latter case "miracles".
No, as it's not nature that's acting in the case of miracles, it's God overriding the natural order.

God is overriding...himself? Doesn't seem to make sense.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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11-12-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: Table Salt
(11-12-2013 03:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 12:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  This implies that evolution has been and gone.

The correct answer is "Yes, I am we are there"
Fixt!

(10-12-2013 12:58 PM)alpha male Wrote:  No, as it's not nature that's acting in the case of miracles, it's God overriding the natural order.

God is overriding...himself? Doesn't seem to make sense.

Yeah, does not make a lot of sense, does it?

Looks like She did not know exactly what to do to start with Wink

Darn, this is not developing as I expected...minor correction needed. LOL.

Ciao

- viole
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11-12-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: Table Salt
(04-12-2013 01:37 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 11:05 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is why the antibiotic example is so good. It forces them to try and explain how they can rely on evolution science to cure sickness yet they deny the existence of that science. This argument completely ignores any religious text as it's not necessary for the debate. In that, it prevents any distractions and smoke screens from entering the argument because the theology aspect isn't part of the question.

Then the question gets isolated to, "If I accept this how can I accept that?"
I would hope the person would respond that antibiotics weren't invented by "evolution science."

Well, given that the over use of antibiotics is causing forced evolutionary change in bacteria, making them more resistant to said antibiotics, they clearly have an evolutionary effect even if it is an example of molecular and chemical biology as opposed to evolutionary biology.

However, antibiotic research allowed humanities head-long dive into immunology, the biological science of immunities and the immune systems of organisms which is responsible for vaccination which is entirely based on evolutionary understanding of the adaptation of organisms.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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11-12-2013, 06:06 PM
RE: Table Salt
(11-12-2013 05:31 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 01:37 PM)alpha male Wrote:  I would hope the person would respond that antibiotics weren't invented by "evolution science."

Well, given that the over use of antibiotics is causing forced evolutionary change in bacteria, making them more resistant to said antibiotics, they clearly have an evolutionary effect even if it is an example of molecular and chemical biology as opposed to evolutionary biology.

However, antibiotic research allowed humanities head-long dive into immunology, the biological science of immunities and the immune systems of organisms which is responsible for vaccination which is entirely based on evolutionary understanding of the adaptation of organisms.

Not to mention KC didn't actually say that antibiotics were discovered through an understanding of evolutionary theory per se. I took it to mean that immunology, like many other fields, have benefited greatly in the past few years from a deeper understanding of evolutionary theory. KC, correct me if I misunderstood, please.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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12-12-2013, 05:38 AM
RE: Table Salt
(11-12-2013 03:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  God is overriding...himself? Doesn't seem to make sense.
Why not? My boss has set the Mon-Thu attire as business casual. Due to particularly cold weather, he overrode himself and made today a jeans day.
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12-12-2013, 05:50 AM
RE: Table Salt
(11-12-2013 05:31 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Well, given that the over use of antibiotics is causing forced evolutionary change in bacteria,
Depends on your definition of evolution. There's a lot of equivocation with that word.
Quote:making them more resistant to said antibiotics, they clearly have an evolutionary effect even if it is an example of molecular and chemical biology as opposed to evolutionary biology.
It's an example of the failure of "evolution science" to cure disease.
Quote:However, antibiotic research allowed humanities head-long dive into immunology, the biological science of immunities and the immune systems of organisms which is responsible for vaccination which is entirely based on evolutionary understanding of the adaptation of organisms.
Feel free to support that.
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12-12-2013, 05:51 AM
RE: Table Salt
(12-12-2013 05:38 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 03:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  God is overriding...himself? Doesn't seem to make sense.
Why not? My boss has set the Mon-Thu attire as business casual. Due to particularly cold weather, he overrode himself and made today a jeans day.


Maybe that's because you're viewing god as 'the boss'. When to those for whom he is not 'boss' tend to miss the part about him not being supernaturally perfect in every way. God overriding himself sounds like he didn't get it right the first time - ie - the opposite of perfect.

Why would a god be anything less than utter and complete perfection- especially to himself?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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