Tables are aware now
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09-11-2015, 12:17 PM
Tables are aware now
A theist on a Facebook group said the following:
"I BELIEVE the universe is causal and deterministic. This implies that the universe is continuously composing every moment, and by definition it is omnipresent and omniscience. Thus, the universe is one supreme being creator that discerned every historical event and its effect on the civilization ( including the events surrounding Plato, Einstein, Jesus christ, Muhammad, even you)."

There were several back and forths but suffice it to say, the challenge was levied to the theist to demonstrate the validity of the claims implied in their statement. Namely, how does one assess that the universe is conscious or contains knowledge or is aware?

Then they produced this gem
[attachment=3082]

I may have found another theist more dishonest and ignorant than Tomasia Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-11-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
One could make the argument that the universe is aware of itself buy using the theory that we are all star-dust. Essentially, if that is true, and we have evolved into our current state, then we, as a part of the universe, are aware of the universe so the universe is aware of itself. However, it would be a non-sequitur (and a circular argument I think?) to say that the entire universe is omniscient and a supreme being creator though.

Interesting lack of logic used in that post though. Smile

**Crickets** -- God
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09-11-2015, 12:30 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(09-11-2015 12:27 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  One could make the argument that the universe is aware of itself buy using the theory that we are all star-dust. Essentially, if that is true, and we have evolved into our current state, then we, as a part of the universe, are aware of the universe so the universe is aware of itself. However, it would be a non-sequitur (and a circular argument I think?) to say that the entire universe is omniscient and a supreme being creator though.

Interesting lack of logic used in that post though. Smile

You could say that a component of the universe is aware of itself, but to equate that to the universe itself being aware would be a non sequitur. And it would be (as you point out) another non sequitur that if a component of the universe (us) is aware, that it is omniscient and we are also clearly not omnipresent.

It is so much stupid, it is impossible for me to parse all of it. Facepalm

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-11-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.
-Carl Sagan

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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09-11-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(09-11-2015 12:39 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.
-Carl Sagan

I like Sagan but he is a bit too poetic in that statement, leading to people distorting it and misconstruing it into what the theist in my OP says.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-11-2015, 01:09 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
Sigh. This is the point where you drill down into definitions and start asking what a person means to say when they are aware. (Actually, the best point is at the start of the conversation before you fall down this rabbit-hole.) Ask if people are automatically aware of, say, tumors in their brains. Ask what it means for something to be conscious, and then ask if they mean it in the same sense that a person is conscious.

Alternatively, you can go with this line that I love.

"I'll give you your ridiculous ad-hoc redefinition of commonplace words, provided I get to say that "donkey" now means "hat". I shall then proceed to demonstrate that you have your head up your ass."
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09-11-2015, 01:12 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(09-11-2015 01:09 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Sigh. This is the point where you drill down into definitions and start asking what a person means to say when they are aware. (Actually, the best point is at the start of the conversation before you fall down this rabbit-hole.) Ask if people are automatically aware of, say, tumors in their brains. Ask what it means for something to be conscious, and then ask if they mean it in the same sense that a person is conscious.

Alternatively, you can go with this line that I love.

"I'll give you your ridiculous ad-hoc redefinition of commonplace words, provided I get to say that "donkey" now means "hat". I shall then proceed to demonstrate that you have your head up your ass."

Getting him to clarify his definitions is what led to the post I screenshot. As you can see, it didn't go well.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-11-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
I have given life to boards, therefore I am a god! Bow down you heathens!
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09-11-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(09-11-2015 12:17 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then they produced this gem

This reminds me of auras, energies in gems, and other hippie bullshit.
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09-11-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
It's simply not humanly possible to be that stupid without some really harsh pharmaceuticals.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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