Tables are aware now
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11-11-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 06:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You're equating the organ (brain) with the function (mind).

No, I've equated brain function with mental functions.

Quote:As evidenced by the fact that you think neurosurgeons understand other people's minds better than they understand their own.

No, what I claim is that in some instances a neurosurgeons, physiatrist, psychologist, and hell even a persons wife, of friends, or family, perhaps others might understand something about a person's own thought better than they do.

Some likely situations, which should be obvious, are instances likes scapegoating, instances involving confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, etc.. in which a possible observer rather than a person himself can recognize the presence of these factors

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-11-2015, 07:47 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2015 07:51 AM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 07:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 06:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You're equating the organ (brain) with the function (mind).

No, I've equated brain function with mental functions.

Quote:As evidenced by the fact that you think neurosurgeons understand other people's minds better than they understand their own.

No, what I claim is that in some instances a neurosurgeons, physiatrist, psychologist, and hell even a persons wife, of friends, or family, perhaps others might understand something about a person's own thought better than they do.

Some likely situations, which should be obvious, are instances likes scapegoating, instances involving confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, etc.. in which a possible observer rather than a person himself can recognize the presence of these factors

"No, I've equated brain function with mental functions. "

This makes no sense and diverts away from everything else you have said as you shift claims.

A brain is an organ. A mind is an emergent property of a functioning brain.

"No, what I claim is that in some instances a neurosurgeons, physiatrist, psychologist, and hell even a persons wife, of friends, or family, perhaps others might understand something about a person's own thought better than they do. "

Yeah, I understand what you are claiming and literally everyone here is calling bullshit. Name one mental health professional who believes they know other people's minds better than they do.

Even Freud for all his psychoanalysis was looking for patterns of behavior and commonalities in the influence of behavior, but he didn't claim to know a person's mind or thoughts better than they do. You clearly don't understand what the point of therapy is.

"Some likely situations, which should be obvious, are instances likes scapegoating, instances involving confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, etc.. in which a possible observer rather than a person himself can recognize the presence of these factors"

Now you are conflating scenarios. A person (like you) saying something stupid (like other people knowing someone else's mind better) and it being obvious that that person is ignorant because of the things they say.

None of that gives any indication as to whether the person:
1) believes it despite the ignorance
2) is lying
3) has a severe mental disorder
4) isn't sure if they believe but want to believe it
5) or any other possibility regarding their specific mental thoughts on whatever it is they are claiming. Not you or anyone else can peer into the mind of another and read their thoughts.

For instance, I don't know why you continue to post such obviously ignorant things or why you post such dishonest bullshit. I don't know if it is because you really believe you are being honest with us and yourself. I don't know if you are a troll. I don't know if you are mentally ill. I don't know if you are so insecure in your religious beliefs that you are trying desperately to find a place to defend them in a last ditch effort to preserve them. I don't know if it is a severe case of cognitive dissonance.

What I do know is that your responses are ignorant, arrogant, and display a dishonesty between your claimed reason for being here and the way in which you actually function on the forum.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-11-2015, 08:10 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 07:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 06:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You're equating the organ (brain) with the function (mind).

No, I've equated brain function with mental functions.

No, you didn't. You equated brain state and mental state.

Quote:
Quote:As evidenced by the fact that you think neurosurgeons understand other people's minds better than they understand their own.

No, what I claim is that in some instances a neurosurgeons, physiatrist, psychologist, and hell even a persons wife, of friends, or family, perhaps others might understand something about a person's own thought better than they do.

That is not what you claimed. If that is what you meant then you should have said that.

Quote:Some likely situations, which should be obvious, are instances likes scapegoating, instances involving confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, etc.. in which a possible observer rather than a person himself can recognize the presence of these factors

That is not what you claimed. If that is what you meant then you should have said that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-11-2015, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2015 09:06 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 07:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "No, I've equated brain function with mental functions. "

This makes no sense and diverts away from everything else you have said as you shift claims.

A brain is an organ. A mind is an emergent property of a functioning brain.

To quote Banjo:

Quote:This is a human brain.

[Image: brain1.jpg]

This is a human mind.

[img][Image: brain1.jpg][/img]

Quote:"Some likely situations, which should be obvious, are instances likes scapegoating, instances involving confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, etc.. in which a possible observer rather than a person himself can recognize the presence of these factors"

Now you are conflating scenarios. A person (like you) saying something stupid (like other people knowing someone else's mind better) and it being obvious that that person is ignorant because of the things they say.

No, you’re the one conflating my claims, and I’m just correcting you.

Observations of confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, scapegoating, more often than not entail observing something about another person’s mind that the person himself likely does not recognize. The basic premise of any these observations, is self-deception. There is also some strong research that suggests our thought processes are not always a means of reaching an accurate perception of the world, but can also be way of protecting our status and self-image-of expressing who we are. Creating their own string of self-deceptive tendencies.

In instances were self-deception is involved, it’ more likely that someone outside of yourself will recognize it, before you do.

Quote:For instance, I don't know why you continue to post such obviously ignorant things or why you post such dishonest bullshit. I don't know if it is because you really believe you are being honest with us and yourself. I don't know if you are a troll.

Inferring anything from my interactions with you, about my interactions with everyone else, should be a no start. Your intentions have already been clearly stated by you, that you’re on some moral crusade, to vindicate your negative perceptions of me, to frame me in a certain unflattering light. With that being the case, I no longer have a desire to have any real honest discussion with you, some times I might be a bit more charitable to you than need be in my responses. But since you made it your mission to irritate me, I have no reservations about trolling you.

But this predicament is exclusive to you, with everyone else I seek amiable and honest relationships with, even if on occasions my arguments with them might get heated, or irritable, it’s not personal. With you on the other hands, it’s purely personal. You made it your mission to annoy me, and I’ve decided to do the same. That seems to be the optimal solution for me, to keep the blood from boiling.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-11-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 08:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 07:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, I've equated brain function with mental functions.

No, you didn't. You equated brain state and mental state.

That too.

Quote:
Quote:No, what I claim is that in some instances a neurosurgeons, physiatrist, psychologist, and hell even a persons wife, of friends, or family, perhaps others might understand something about a person's own thought better than they do.

That is not what you claimed. If that is what you meant then you should have said that.

That is what I said, to quote myself in Post 46:

"I'm sure there are a variety of neurosurgeons and psychotherapist, that know some aspects of your thoughts better than you do. I'm sure your wife on some occasions might as well, sometimes even your children, friends, etc.... Just like some aspects of my own thoughts. "

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-11-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 08:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 07:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "No, I've equated brain function with mental functions. "

This makes no sense and diverts away from everything else you have said as you shift claims.

A brain is an organ. A mind is an emergent property of a functioning brain.

To quote Banjo:

Quote:This is a human brain.

[Image: brain1.jpg]

This is a human mind.

[img][Image: brain1.jpg][/img]

Quote:"Some likely situations, which should be obvious, are instances likes scapegoating, instances involving confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, etc.. in which a possible observer rather than a person himself can recognize the presence of these factors"

Now you are conflating scenarios. A person (like you) saying something stupid (like other people knowing someone else's mind better) and it being obvious that that person is ignorant because of the things they say.

No, you’re the one conflating my claims, and I’m just correcting you.

Observations of confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, scapegoating, more often than not entail observing something about another person’s mind that the person himself likely does not recognize. The basic premise of any these observations, is self-deception. There is also some strong research that suggests our thought processes are not always a means of reaching an accurate perception of the world, but can also be way of protecting our status and self-image-of expressing who we are. Creating their own string of self-deceptive tendencies.

In instances were self-deception is involved, it’ more likely that someone outside of yourself will recognize it, before you do.

Quote:For instance, I don't know why you continue to post such obviously ignorant things or why you post such dishonest bullshit. I don't know if it is because you really believe you are being honest with us and yourself. I don't know if you are a troll.

Inferring anything from my interactions with you, about my interactions with everyone else, should be a no start. Your intentions have already been clearly stated by you, that you’re on some moral crusade, to vindicate your negative perceptions of me, to frame me in a certain unflattering light. With that being the case, I no longer have a desire to have any real honest discussion with you, some times I might be a bit more charitable to you than need be in my responses. But since you made it your mission to irritate me, I have no reservations about trolling you.

But this predicament is exclusive to you, with everyone else I seek amiable and honest relationships with, even if on occasions my arguments with them might get heated, or irritable, it’s not personal. With you on the other hands, it’s purely personal. You made it your mission to annoy me, and I’ve decided to do the same. That seems to be the optimal solution for me, to keep the blood from boiling.

"To quote Banjo:"

And you still don't understand the difference between what a mind is and what a brain is and that they are different.

"No, you’re the one conflating my claims, and I’m just correcting you. "

You wish

"Observations of confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, scapegoating, more often than not entail observing something about another person’s mind that the person himself likely does not recognize. The basic premise of any these observations, is self-deception. There is also some strong research that suggests our thought processes are not always a means of reaching an accurate perception of the world, but can also be way of protecting our status and self-image-of expressing who we are. Creating their own string of self-deceptive tendencies. "

Your generalizations have no relevance to reality. To put it simply, you don't know what is going on in anyone else's head, even if they don't know either.

"In instances were self-deception is involved, it’ more likely that someone outside of yourself will recognize it, before you do. "

Irrelevant. This does not allow one to know another's mind. You are conflating someone being ignorant or wrong, with being able to read their mind. How ironic.

"Inferring anything from my interactions with you, about my interactions with everyone else, should be a no start."

Nonsensical sentence.

"Your intentions have already been clearly stated by you, that you’re on some moral crusade, to vindicate your negative perceptions of me, to frame me in a certain unflattering light."

Another example of you not understanding what I say to you. I am not here to paint you in an unflattering light, I simply facilitate your expression of your dishonesty and ignorance.

"With that being the case, I no longer have a desire to have any real honest discussion with you, some times I might be a bit more charitable to you than need be in my responses. But since you made it your mission to irritate me, I have no reservations about trolling you."

You were (are) never anything other than a dishonest troll Drinking Beverage

This is an admission however that no matter what I say, you will disagree by default. Solidifying your dishonesty about being here to learn and cementing your stupidity.



"But this predicament is exclusive to you, with everyone else I seek amiable and honest relationships with, even if on occasions my arguments with them might get heated, or irritable, it’s not personal."

Yeah, I explicitly call you what you are and you get your feelings hurt because I am correct in my judgment (as indicated by the observation that people agree with my assessments of you).

Why should I or anyone else care that you seek "amiable" relationships with others? This has no bearing on your intentions or your ignorance.

And no, you don't seek "honest" discussions with anyone. That is my entire point. You pretend to or think you do, but you simply do not. You don't actually listen to what people are telling you or when people point out your ignorance. Instead, you double-down on your bullshit.

"With you on the other hands, it’s purely personal. You made it your mission to annoy me, and I’ve decided to do the same. That seems to be the optimal solution for me, to keep the blood from boiling."

I don't care. You've demonstrated time and again blatant hypocrisy and an inability for introspection. Typical theist. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-11-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 09:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 08:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you didn't. You equated brain state and mental state.

That too.

Quote:That is not what you claimed. If that is what you meant then you should have said that.

That is what I said, to quote myself in Post 46:

"I'm sure there are a variety of neurosurgeons and psychotherapist, that know some aspects of your thoughts better than you do. I'm sure your wife on some occasions might as well, sometimes even your children, friends, etc.... Just like some aspects of my own thoughts. "

Neurosurgeons or psychiatrists hypothesizing about what may be going through someone's head, is NOT because they understand that person's thoughts better than they do. It is because they understand how a brain works and how a mind works and can speculate about what that person MIGHT be going through or thinking.

They do not KNOW, in any meaning of the word, that person's thoughts better than they do.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-11-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 09:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "To quote Banjo:"

And you still don't understand the difference between what a mind is and what a brain is and that they are different.

Someone pulls out a picture of the brain, somebody pulls out a picture of the mind. Looks the same to me.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-11-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 09:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 09:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "To quote Banjo:"

And you still don't understand the difference between what a mind is and what a brain is and that they are different.

Someone pulls out a picture of the brain, somebody pulls out a picture of the mind. Looks the same to me.

Facepalm

Someone pulls out a picture of a computer and says it is both a computer and software, and you believe that the two are equivalent

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-11-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: Tables are aware now
(11-11-2015 09:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 09:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "To quote Banjo:"

And you still don't understand the difference between what a mind is and what a brain is and that they are different.

Someone pulls out a picture of the brain, somebody pulls out a picture of the mind. Looks the same to me.

Stop yourself for two seconds and ask yourself these questions:
"Do I know physiology, neurology, and psychiatry to any degree beyond an amateur level?"

"Do I find it weird that literally no one else agrees with me?"

"Could I be a complete ignoramus and be utterly fucking wrong?"

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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