Tables are aware now
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10-11-2015, 06:43 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:30 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Brain states occur; from them mental states emerge.

The question was are mental states, physical states? Yes or no?

Asked and answered. The answer to your precise question is neither yes nor no.

There is a time component that a particular brain state does not include.
It is like music in that music is a sequence of instrument states.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-11-2015, 06:45 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are mental states physical states?

Is my algorithm to optimally sort a list of items which I've proven is optimal but have not yet realized it on hardware a program? Until it's realized on hardware what is it? Mental states are programs running on the substrate hardware provided by the brain. Like a surfer dude.

#sigh
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10-11-2015, 06:46 PM
Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are mental states physical states?

Is my algorithm to optimally sort a list of items which I've proven is optimal but have not yet realized it on hardware a program? Until it's realized on hardware what is it? Mental states are programs running on the substrate hardware provided by the brain. Like a surfer dude.

Far out

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10-11-2015, 06:51 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:30 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  The question was are mental states, physical states? Yes or no?

You've been given an answer. You're asking a nonsensical and stupid question.

Does red taste green?

How about if we ask it this way:

Is consciousness a physical process? Is that a nonsensical question?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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10-11-2015, 06:52 PM
Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You've been given an answer. You're asking a nonsensical and stupid question.

Does red taste green?

How about if we ask it this way:

Is consciousness a physical process? Is that a nonsensical question?

Yes, you've already gotten an answer to your stupid questions (which are red herrings)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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10-11-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Is my algorithm to optimally sort a list of items which I've proven is optimal but have not yet realized it on hardware a program? Until it's realized on hardware what is it? Mental states are programs running on the substrate hardware provided by the brain. Like a surfer dude.

Far out

Indeed.




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10-11-2015, 07:15 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  How about if we ask it this way:

Is consciousness a physical process? Is that a nonsensical question?

Perhaps you need to join a medical forum that specializes in brain chemistry and how the brain works? There are forums for everything these days so I am sure you could find one.

This is just a forum of atheists. Some very smart people here, but your question seems specific. Perhaps find said forum and then when you get the results come back and enlighten us.

I'd look forward to that.

Right now though I am heading to the local cafe for some lunch. Perhaps I'll even have an answer upon my return? Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-11-2015, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 07:39 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 06:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Is my algorithm to optimally sort a list of items which I've proven is optimal but have not yet realized it on hardware a program? Until it's realized on hardware what is it? Mental states are programs running on the substrate hardware provided by the brain. Like a surfer dude.

I'm not too sure how to exactly answer your algorithm question.

But I'm sure you're aware that there are a variety of computations and "programs" running in the brain that don't particularly involve consciousness. And injuries like blindsight indicate that your mind can recognize objects without having a conscious visual experience of them, in fact you see yourself as merely guessing.

If we're trying to distinguish between brain states, and mental states, would we say some computations are done by the brain, and other computations are done by the mind? If so where's the dividing line?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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10-11-2015, 07:53 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 07:36 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If we're trying to distinguish between brain states, and mental states, would we say some computations are done by the brain, and other computations are done by the mind? If so where's the dividing line?

Death is the dividing line. There is no difference between brain and mental states.
Thought and mental states are the product of the brain and it's chemical makeup. Everything about a person's mental state, personality, memory, everything, is a result of chemistry. Physical injury, disease, chemicals, and other physical factors can all affect a person's brain and "self".

You do not exist outside of your brain. When your body dies, you die.

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10-11-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Tables are aware now
(10-11-2015 07:36 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Is my algorithm to optimally sort a list of items which I've proven is optimal but have not yet realized it on hardware a program? Until it's realized on hardware what is it? Mental states are programs running on the substrate hardware provided by the brain. Like a surfer dude.

I'm not too sure how to exactly answer your algorithm question.

But I'm sure you're aware that there are a variety of computations and "programs" running in the brain that don't particularly involve consciousness. And injuries like blindsight indicate that your mind can recognize objects without having a conscious visual experience of them, in fact you see yourself as merely guessing.

If we're trying to distinguish between brain states, and mental states, would we say some computations are done by the brain, and other computations are done by the mind? If so where's the dividing line?

You are conflating two very different uses of the word "computation". Conscious calculation is not the same thing as unconscious mental processes.
Those are not computations, they are evolved brain functions most of which are shared by other mammals.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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