Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
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27-01-2015, 10:31 AM
Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
Over Halloween, a local pastor (Who shall be known as "Pastor Juju" for this post) posted a fear mongering Satanic-panic-style excuse for a fart of thought which happened to make it to my step-son's Facebook wall. I decided to directly challenge his post. You can make out what the original article he wrote was through my quotes, as I quoted it line for line in my first response. It took him 3 months to initially respond back, because, you know, technology is hard for some. Notice he never meets me head on for any of my counter issues, but instead tries to evade it all, a common tactic I've noticed intellectually dishonest clergy do all too often.

You'd think if they had an almighty god on their side, they'd have more of a spine.

Alas, for your reading pleasure (Edits for minor spelling errors, and censoring Pastor Juju's real name):

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Conversation started November 1, 2014
Tony Salcedo
11/1, 12:14pm
Tony Salcedo

A recent post you made came across my child's timeline, and I'd like to address some things and challenge some of the baseless assertions you've made. Why? Because I detest misinformation and the spreading thereof.

"What are Halloween masks all about?"

Commercialism, just like any other modern holiday, but I don't think you mean this in a literal sense.

"Well, people say it's just a fun thing to do."

That's subjective.

"But in reality, early on, it was said that the spirits of the dead left their graves on Halloween to re-inhabit homes they once lived in."

There is nothing in reality to base the notion of a "spirit" to begin with. Can you definitively and falsifiability demonstrate this concept? No, you can not, and that's what renders the entire concept of supernaturalism a baseless assertion.

"To scare them off, people would put out Jack O Lanterns with scary faces and try to appease these spirits with treats."

Primitively superstitious people. They were afraid of the unknown. But we know better these days.

"Of course, people's spirits don't return from the grave as ghosts after they die."

You're assuming anything exists beyond naturalism, which again, is baseless.

"They return to God to be judged & wait in heaven or hell for that."

Yet another baseless assertion, most likely contrived from a book chock full of baseless assertions.

"So, these spirits are really demons masquerading as people's ghosts."

No, it's people like you perpetuating fear and superstition in order to subvert gullible peoples with your particular brand of absurd beliefs.

"Hence, when we wear a mask & go to people's doors for treats, we are acting as if we are demons arriving for our treats!"

You need to be able to demonstrate demons exist in a verifiable and falsifiable way before making such an assertion. Otherwise, you may as well be saying you're masquerading as the Easter Bunny.

"We are masquerading as a demon or a demon possessed person (such as a zombie, etc.) hungry for treats."

Newsflash: Zombies are FICTIONAL beings.

"We change our identities to a demonic one. Even masks that appear harmless can represent demons."

More baseless assertions. See above as to why.

"For example, a mask of a dolphin can represent the demon that reigns over the sea in the context of Halloween."

The only thing close to the "sea' with this here notion is I am convinced you've abandoned all thinking and have officially gone off the deep end. This is one of the absolute STUPIDEST things I have ever seen come across the internet.

"And it makes no difference if we do it only in fun."

I think that would be the only reason someone would dress up as anything for a holiday such as Halloween.

"Demons know we are paying them homage & have now given them legal right to invade our lives or kid's lives."

Are you paying Turkeys homage on Thanksgiving? Your logic is broken and fundamentally backwards.

"Child of God,"

Which god?

"why do you partake in such demonic rituals?"

The same reason you put up a Christmas tree in December although your scriptures strictly forbids it.

"Why do you let your kids?"

Because I don't believe in gullible superstitions.

"Please, stop."

No.

"Refuse these demonic rituals & seek Jesus."

As a former Christian myself for 21 years, I can personally attest to the fact that followers like you, and church leaders, although you might mean well sometimes, the rest of the time you resort to lies and snake oil sales tactics to put asses in seats for that delicious 10% of income you pay your mortgages with. You're conmen of the gullible and ill informed. You scare children with your hellfire and scriptures from the most amoral of books, that which supports slavery, rape, murder, and the subversion of women as well as those you deem unfit for whatever bigoted passage you claim to cherry pick.

"He alone conquers Satan & his hideous demons."

Satan is a plagiarism of the Angra Mainyu, from Zoroastrianism, a much older religion than yours. So why aren't you proclaiming the dangers of THAT instead? The concept predates your bible by centuries. Why? Because either you want to subvert the truth to gain more gullible sheep, or you yourself lack the knowledge and education. In either case, why are you opening your big mouth when none of what you're saying has any basis in reality? You're either an idiot, or a liar. In either case, I oppose you for the simple fact that in the age of information, ignorance is a choice. Otherwise, lying is amoral, and to that I am opposed.
Friday
Pastor Juju
1/23, 3:27pm
Pastor Juju

Just now found this message to me in the box marked "Other." I never check it. I won't spend time refuting your long critique of my article on Halloween. It would prove fruitless anyway.

One day, you will meet God face to face. I only hope you are ready. God bless you.

Love to you in Christ, Pastor Juju
Tony Salcedo
1/23, 3:31pm
Tony Salcedo

You won't, or rather you can't? One day I hope you will realize how fruitless your pursuits or ancient bronze age superstitions are as you spread your lies and poison to our youth keeping one foot stubbornly planted in the dark ages because you couldn't be bothered to actually investigate reality due to your deep seeded unsubstantiated fears and greed for a nonexistent reward.
Tony Salcedo
1/23, 3:33pm
Tony Salcedo

Also, congrats on figuring out how Facebook works, 3 months is still better late than never, right?
Pastor Juju
1/23, 3:35pm
Pastor Juju

You are very judgmental. You've drawn all kinds of judgments about me & you don't even know me. You've only read one article. At least I love people Tony. There is no love in anything you write - only anger, judgment & a hint of hatred. Sad man. Sad.
Tony Salcedo
1/23, 3:47pm
Tony Salcedo

You love people? Really? Then why spread obvious lies and superstitions to their children like some forked tonged pied piper? If you have a position where people listen to what you have to say, make sure what you say is justifiable and comports with reality. Otherwise you're perpetuating lies and that makes you lower than the lowest of our species. You love no one but yourself and you can't get past your own fear of the unknown along with your own self doubt about your unsubstantiated beliefs, so you con others to do the same in some twisted attempt at self validation. It's dishonest, no matter how you sugar coat it. Honest people like myself will be there to oppose such lies every step of the way because let's face it, someone's gotta be the good guy.

Threatening people with eternal torture because they aren't gullible enough to believe obvious lies isn't love. That's delusion.
Pastor Juju
1/23, 3:52pm
Pastor Juju

Like I said. You are full of anger, judgment, hatred, but also rage & bitterness & a spirit of accusation, too. These things pour out of you like water out of a hose. Truly sad. Makes me wonder why? You have obviously been hurt deeply in your past. And this is the result.
Tony Salcedo
1/23, 4:02pm
Tony Salcedo

Wow, there's some psychological projection if I ever did see it. Reminder, I'm not the one who ascribes to a holy book who's protagonist orders its followers to stone people who work on weekends, rape, pillage, mass murder and take virgin sex slaves. Oh and before you go pulling the old apologetic tactic of discounting the old testament, you do that, you discard original soon and your need for salvation rendering the new testament moot as well. And of course I'd seem angry to you. Any honest person seems that way to a liar. And I do judge you a liar, in contrast with reality, you do not comport. Therefore you speak lies. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that despite mountains of evidence in support of this fact is what makes you delusional. I'm sure you were indoctrinated in the past and this is the result.
Tony Salcedo
1/23, 4:03pm
Tony Salcedo

Original sin* autocorrect mistake.
Tony Salcedo
1/23, 4:17pm
Tony Salcedo

Sad and cowardly of you Pastor Juju. I directly challenge you and your imaginary friend, and you tuck tail without meeting the challenge head on. You may have imagination and your belief in hocus pocus on your side, but I have provable facts, morality, honesty, and enough self integrity to call you out as a liar. This is why you won't address the argument head on and why you resort to intellectually dishonest tactics of using blatant red herrings.

Christianity crumbles under scrutiny and criticism, as all lies do.

What kind of man are you Pastor Juju? One without a shred of dignity and self respect it seems.
Pastor Juju
1/23, 6:37pm
Pastor Juju

You are under the mistaken impression that I have to prove something to you or that I even want to. I don't. Evidence for God is abundant. Find it yourself.

.
Today
Tony Salcedo
11:13am
Tony Salcedo

"You are under the mistaken impression that I have to prove something to you or that I even want to. I don't."

You're the one making absurd claims in order to scare others into your cult.

"Evidence for God is abundant."

If by abundant, you mean "non-existent" then yes.

"Find it yourself."

The burden of proof is on the claimant. You're the one making wildly absurd claims of Juju and demons, which aren't even self-consistent with your own backwards mythology. You make unsubstantiated claims to trick those as gullible as you are using blatant fear tactics. Some of us out there actually use the brains it took 4.5 billion years for evolution to craft for us, not spit in the face of progress in favor of lining your pockets with the tithes of the fearful.

You're a truly disgusting excuse for a human being and you should be ashamed of yourself and your lack of anything resembling a shred of ethical behavior.

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27-01-2015, 10:51 AM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
As a rule of thumb -- never waste your time arguing with a clergyman.

They'll NEVER admit they're wrong - regardless of your evidence.....

Reason???

They have something that you don't bring to the argument -----


You're into in for right and wrong.

They're into it for the paycheck.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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27-01-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
(27-01-2015 10:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  As a rule of thumb -- never waste your time arguing with a clergyman.

They'll NEVER admit they're wrong - regardless of your evidence.....

Reason???

They have something that you don't bring to the argument -----


You're into in for right and wrong.

They're into it for the paycheck.

You're absolutely right with that one. This isn't my first rodeo with clergy. I still like to remind them of what shitty human beings they are so when they rest their heads at night, they at least know some of us are on to their scam.

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27-01-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
Dolphin mask?

I have no words for that level of crazy.

I loved however the line, "Then why spread obvious lies and superstitions to their children like some forked tonged pied piper?"

That was shear brilliance.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-01-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
You are doing a great job. I would point out that he is the one being judgemental when he says that you are full of anger and hatred. You have not shown hatred in your correspondence and there is a difference in being full of anger and being angry with someone who fear mongers children and is purposefully manipulating people with misstatements.
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27-01-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
Good job! I would just love to have an exchange like this with the pastor or youth leader at my son's church. The day may come, but don't want to make waves until my son goes off to college next year. They are all arrogant weasels.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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27-01-2015, 04:53 PM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
Why are you hiding the pastor's name? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-01-2015, 12:35 AM
RE: Taking the Offensive with a Fear Mongering Facebook Pastor
(27-01-2015 04:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  Why are you hiding the pastor's name? Consider
Ethical reasons. I'm not above doxing someone, but it's something I do in extreme situations. I want the argument to stand on its own merits. In the few conversations I do post, I usually don't give out the other person's name unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

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