Talking in Tongues.
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04-10-2011, 10:13 AM
RE: Talking in Tongues.
Quote:Translation: I have nothing beneficial to contribute to this topic.

hfdsfo fksyrluf dshfoeyr sdfyhose!!!Sleepy
LOL!

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05-10-2011, 06:02 AM
RE: Talking in Tongues.
Let this guy speak for me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O_KuEOLuyI

Smile

The same thing is with religious "tongues". You are all crazy if you believe in these "tongues". I would suggest going to therapy if you believe that this BS has ANY meaning.

P.S.
This is religious babbling. Therapy for all of them. And a lot of pills...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=omy24KC3LzU

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05-10-2011, 08:11 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2011 08:16 AM by S.T. Ranger.)
RE: Talking in Tongues.
(04-10-2011 10:13 AM)tazmin98 Wrote:  
Quote:Translation: I have nothing beneficial to contribute to this topic.

hfdsfo fksyrluf dshfoeyr sdfyhose!!!Sleepy
LOL!

Translation: I still...do not have anything that will contribute to this conversation, sorry, but, I do have a sense of humor, so excuse my facetious nature.

Response: A good sense of humor is important to sound mental health...keep working on it.

Note...just kidding (this is just one of my favorite jokes).

S.T.
(05-10-2011 06:02 AM)Filox Wrote:  Let this guy speak for me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O_KuEOLuyI

Smile

The same thing is with religious "tongues". You are all crazy if you believe in these "tongues". I would suggest going to therapy if you believe that this BS has ANY meaning.

P.S.
This is religious babbling. Therapy for all of them. And a lot of pills...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=omy24KC3LzU

You may not realize it, but we are in agreement that this guy is nuts. As a matter of fact, if you look at the interviewer, his sanity has to be questioned as well (I mean, would you go out in public with hair like that? [my apologies to those here that may have hair like that]).

The question is, would you like to discuss what scripture actually says about the gift of languages? The resources for examples of lunatics as well as well-meaning (howbeit) confused believers are limitless.

I would also agree that "religious babbling" is a good term for ecstatic speech, seeing that it is usually done for the purpose of illustrating how "religious" one is, for personal vainglory.

S.T.
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06-10-2011, 03:02 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2011 03:10 AM by Filox.)
RE: Talking in Tongues.
So S. T., does this mean that you acknowledge that people in the church are a bit crazy when they start speaking in tongues, or you really think that they are touched by the Holly Spirit, but this guy does not speak Plutonian, he is just crazy? Wouldn't that be called "double-standards"?

I really do not care what does any scripture has to say about it, if something is written down in a book (of any kind) it does not make it true. But some evidence would be welcomed, evidence beside the very, very old and obsolete scriptures...

My explanation for all of this is simple, people can have a placebo effect and human mind is capable of making us see and feel things that are not there. Today we know about placebo effects and the power of auto-suggestion because we have advanced medicine and things like that are clinically tested and observed. 2000-3000 years ago people did not have that medicinal knowledge, so they attributed everything to God, demons or similar supernatural stuff and that is the reason I can not and will not take any old scripture as a guideline to anything.

So what I am interested to hear from you is do you believe in this, what I said (placebo effect and auto-suggestion), or you believe that something like the Holly Spirit is responsible for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHhZZ0tNvBw ?

Extra simple explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJ0mjKK0tg

Smile

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07-10-2011, 07:47 AM
RE: Talking in Tongues.
(06-10-2011 03:02 AM)Filox Wrote:  So S. T., does this mean that you acknowledge that people in the church are a bit crazy when they start speaking in tongues, or you really think that they are touched by the Holly Spirit, but this guy does not speak Plutonian, he is just crazy? Wouldn't that be called "double-standards"?

I really do not care what does any scripture has to say about it, if something is written down in a book (of any kind) it does not make it true. But some evidence would be welcomed, evidence beside the very, very old and obsolete scriptures...

My explanation for all of this is simple, people can have a placebo effect and human mind is capable of making us see and feel things that are not there. Today we know about placebo effects and the power of auto-suggestion because we have advanced medicine and things like that are clinically tested and observed. 2000-3000 years ago people did not have that medicinal knowledge, so they attributed everything to God, demons or similar supernatural stuff and that is the reason I can not and will not take any old scripture as a guideline to anything.

So what I am interested to hear from you is do you believe in this, what I said (placebo effect and auto-suggestion), or you believe that something like the Holly Spirit is responsible for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHhZZ0tNvBw ?

Extra simple explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJ0mjKK0tg

Smile

Hello Filox, thanks for the response. First, I want you to understand that because a group is called "the Church" does not mean that they are the Church.

Quote:So S. T., does this mean that you acknowledge that people in the church are a bit crazy when they start speaking in tongues, or you really think that they are touched by the Holly Spirit, but this guy does not speak Plutonian, he is just crazy? Wouldn't that be called "double-standards"?

I do not necessarily view those associated with Christianity who engage in ecstatic speech as "a bit crazy" (though I do think some of these could be classified as "crazy" just like any other group of people examined [meaning that within any given group there will be a variety of mentalities]), but think that within this movement they will range from deceived to those who actually are possessed.

I know you will laugh at the thought of demon possession, however, if you look at the history of ecstatic speech in pagan religions, you will find that it is closely associated with the use of drugs, which is, in my view, one of the ways a person opens their minds to demons. They used these drugs in order to "commune with the gods," and the "gods" were more than happy to accomodate, I believe.

That is not to say that truly born again believers will not engage in this activity (ecstatic speech), though I do not believe that the believer can be possessed. Some are taught to do this, by use of oral as well as illustrated material.

Usually, the first thing taught is to "clear your mind." This is opposed to what I believe scripture teaches for the Church, which is to be in control of oneself at all times. Guarding the mind, not "freeing it," is what people should seek to do.

Next, they are told that "whatever comes into your mind...speak it!"

The first obvious problem with this pseudo "gift" is that the gift of languages is...a gift of God. It is not something that you teach ourself to do, it is, as seen in scripture, something that when the gift was bestowed upon an individual, it was immediate, not slowly learned and perfected.

And it is clear from scripture that this gift involves actual languages, not babbling.

My personal opinion is that this gift reverses the "confusion of languages" as happened during the account of the Tower of Babel. But that is just opinion.



Quote:I really do not care what does any scripture has to say about it, if something is written down in a book (of any kind) it does not make it true. But some evidence would be welcomed, evidence beside the very, very old and obsolete scriptures...

Apparently what is written about it is not "cared about" by many. If it were, we would not see the mockery of the true gift, because it is thought to be exampled by those engaging in ecstatic speech.


Quote:My explanation for all of this is simple, people can have a placebo effect and human mind is capable of making us see and feel things that are not there. Today we know about placebo effects and the power of auto-suggestion because we have advanced medicine and things like that are clinically tested and observed. 2000-3000 years ago people did not have that medicinal knowledge, so they attributed everything to God, demons or similar supernatural stuff and that is the reason I can not and will not take any old scripture as a guideline to anything.


But the "old scripture" does not even refer to the "tongues movement."

But I agree with the premise of this statement. This is why ecstatic speech lives on, because it is suggested to the minds of the adherents that it is valid.


Quote:So what I am interested to hear from you is do you believe in this, what I said (placebo effect and auto-suggestion), or you believe that something like the Holly Spirit is responsible for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHhZZ0tNvBw ?

Extra simple explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJ0mjKK0tg

I could not look at the links due to my computer protection, but I will just say that it is doubtful that an occurence of the true gift will be found. I believe scripture teaches that this gift was meant for a temporary time for the purpose of validating the message of the Apostles, and is at this time inactive, though I do believe it occurs from time to time, based upon accounts of missionaries to foreign countries.

Thanks for the interest, I wish I had more time to go into this, but I need to get going.

Look forward to future discussion.

S.T.
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