Talmud, OT and morality of god
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24-10-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 12:15 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 11:32 AM)unfogged Wrote:  True, but you have yet to provide any evidence that this god exists or that it created anything. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster created everything then it created our morality. If a hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional shad of the color blue created everything then it created our morality.

Your claims are every bit as empty.
More Iike common sense. If everything exists and excels through time then it must have started. If everything started at some point, then something had to have made it start.

You can call it what you want. Even if the big bang didn't happen we still had some sort of starting point. I, personally, can not begin to understand how all this could have possibly came from nothing at all, without the intervention of something grand. Even if it has taken over 16 billion years. Not that I think that number is accurate, or not.

Your incredulity is not an argument. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-10-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 07:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 07:42 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Sacrifice of self is the way of salvation and direction under God. You can't sacrifice anything that isn't yours. That is murder, not sacrifice. Jesus taught how to live righteously under God. Just because most Christians think the death of the son of God is a get out of hell free card doesn't make it so.

I keep forgetting that you have created your own theology and that your views are even more delusional than the common xian ones. "Sacrifice of self" can be noble or abhorrent but it would depend on what you mean by it. I'm betting on the abhorrent end of the scale but the main problem with your claim is that you still haven't provided a shred of evidence that your god exists.
Yeah yeah yeah. I have my proof. Through removal of pride and greed, and through introspect and hope in the creative force that made all including you you may eventually find your proof as well.

I know; not proof. Save your breath.
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24-10-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 12:40 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Which is why I haven't engaged much so far. The details of what a religion entails is of little interest to me. The question of why people believe it is much more compelling.

Yeah, that too.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-10-2015, 08:02 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 12:43 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Yes, halakha is the whole shebang. It's the Torah, the Talmud, and the entirety of how it's practiced. Halakha only applies to Jews; others are not expected to follow it.

Your explanation of the extreme wording in the Torah maybe covers a sliver of the reasoning. There are other more prominent beliefs behind the specific langage that's used. As I said before, I'm not prepared to discuss it. Besides, it probably gets into a little too much woo for the locals anyway. Big Grin

Any woo is too much woo. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-10-2015, 08:03 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 07:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 12:15 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  More Iike common sense. If everything exists and excels through time then it must have started. If everything started at some point, then something had to have made it start.

You can call it what you want. Even if the big bang didn't happen we still had some sort of starting point. I, personally, can not begin to understand how all this could have possibly came from nothing at all, without the intervention of something grand. Even if it has taken over 16 billion years. Not that I think that number is accurate, or not.

Your incredulity is not an argument. Drinking Beverage
Then why respond? You are incredulous, not me. What do you believe that I do not? By the way lack of belief isn't belief.
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24-10-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 01:12 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Just to clarify, the main idea of Torah is not creation, floods, death or destruction. It's not about whether or not Moses led the people out of Egypt. It’s not a book about believing in G-d out of fear of being damned to an eternity in hell, which is not even mentioned. Torah is a book about how to live your life.

- If you wrong someone, make it right.
- Don’t cheat on your spouse.
- Don’t cheat someone in business.
- Stick together as a people.
- Take care of orphans, widows, the elderly, the sick, and the poor.
- Treat everyone with dignity and respect.

These are the main ideas that Torah teaches; it's the meat of the story. The reason that Jewish people follow it is primarily because the advice seems to work for us. We're not afraid of G-d wrath if we screw up. Our lives are improved through following the law, so that's why we believe in it.

Good list - simple, clear, understandable.
And by making that list, you have obviated any need of the Torah, the Talmud, and all the rest. Thumbsup

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24-10-2015, 08:09 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 07:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ...
If you love God unconditionally then you would never own a slave
...

Instead, you'd merely be one.

Dodgy

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24-10-2015, 08:14 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 08:09 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 07:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ...
If you love God unconditionally then you would never own a slave
...

Instead, you'd merely be one.

Dodgy
Not really. God provides all. Respecting the force that created all and gave us freedom and will and potential isn't slavery. It is a way of being that is wholly beneficial to self, others and God's cause. Is your selfish wants of this temporal world are more significant to you than the force that made them then your reward and life will be in this plane alone. Slaves most likely lead somewhat miserable lives. Serving God has the opposite effect.
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24-10-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
The Bible is vile in many places. My daughter was starting to harbour fears about end times prophecy so we started reading Revelations together so she could decide what she thought about the actual source.

It's pretty bad but she was bored after not too long, so we switched to Leviticus. Well just opening up a random page we're reading accounts of blood sacrifices. She was horrified of course. That's the proper emotional reaction when you hear that's what a God likes and wants of his people. But then we read further and find the family of priests assigned by Moses is half wiped out because they dared to put incense in the fire. Well God didn't ask for that. So he did the only try divine perfect loving thing a father-God can do in that situation, which is to burn his children to death and have Moses yell at the morning earthly father not to step a foot out of line or the same will happen to him and his surviving sons.

God is love. The Bible is divinely inspired. Every word of this atrocity is in act of perfect love from a perfect God. Whoopee!

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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24-10-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 08:14 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ...
Is your selfish wants of this temporal world are more significant to you than the force that made them
...

Are you talking about gravity?

What makes you think I have any selfish wants?

Huh

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