Talmud, OT and morality of god
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24-10-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 06:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Not cherry picking or taking out of context.

Yes, you are. That has already been shown.

Quote: It didn't have a commandment in stone that enforced slavery.

No, it never said "Thou shalt own slaves". I haven't claimed that it commanded people to own slaves. It said "when you have slaves, here's who you can own and how badly you can beat them". That's condoning slavery.

Quote:Slavery wasn't done by taking others against their will. P.o.W. are a little different.

Just another pathetic excuse. POW or not, they took people to be slaves against their will. It is just amazing how far theists will go to twist the plain truth to make excuses for their beliefs.

Quote:It is obvious that although inspired by truth under God, some of the writings were for the benefit of man. I'm not saying it is the infallible word of God. Not any part specifically condoning slavery of a negative nature anyway.

And we are back to the same old problem. There's no way to tell what is literal and what is metaphor, what is god-inspired and what is corrupted. You read it and pick what you like. Another reads it and picks what they like. There is no standard to judge one from the other because it is all bullshit.

Quote:Just because it is seen as inhumane in this day didn't mean it was the same thousands of years ago. Like I said already, if the OT would have banned slavery there would have been bloodshed. How can you get bloodshed from not murdering, stealing, cheating, or luring?

That may qualify as the stupidest argument made by you yet, and that is saying a lot. They supposedly had to be told not to murder or steal and you think they would have said, "Oh, OK, I won't murder or steal any more as long as I can keep owning slaves... that'd be pushing this obeying god thing one step too far!"

You are a truly pitiful apologist.

Quote:In fact, it's pretty hard to mistreat your servants under the laws of the Torah as well.

Right, because beating them just shy of having them die within 2 days is not mistreating them.

Quote:So maybe I am wrong. Maybe it was justified. How would the exceedingly poor have survived if not for being put to work in exchange for sustenance and shelter?

No maybe about it, but not because anything was justified. You keep trying to pretend that some sort of indentured servitude is what we are talking about and it isn't. If that's all that had been going on then there wouldn't be an issue. They had indentured servants. They also had slaves. They claimed to have been told they could do that by their god. It was a primitive, barbaric society and the book reflects that. Stop reading just the parts you like and read the whole thing and, for once, use some critical thinking.

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24-10-2015, 06:38 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 06:30 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 06:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  I was an atheist. Only one thing converted me to Christianity - personal revelation from God by the power of the Holy Ghost. Nothing or nobody else could convert me to Christianity.
No atheist will ever believe in Christ unless God will give him or her gift of faith by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That's really a load of something.

I require more proof than "feels right in my head."

I've spent far too much time reading about all the different religions to be so easily swayed by what amounts to just feels.

Too bad you didn't use the thinking part of your brain more.
Most atheist I have talked to have said the same thing, "The only way I could ever believe in God is if he showed me something to prove he exist". So what happens to an atheist who got exactly what was asked and then converted to Christianity? They are labeled as a weirdos on an acid trip. I pray that every atheist here has Jesus moment while on earth. Then we can all be a bunch of weirdos together.
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24-10-2015, 06:47 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 06:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 06:30 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That's really a load of something.

I require more proof than "feels right in my head."

I've spent far too much time reading about all the different religions to be so easily swayed by what amounts to just feels.

Too bad you didn't use the thinking part of your brain more.
Most atheist I have talked to have said the same thing, "The only way I could ever believe in God is if he showed me something to prove he exist". So what happens to an atheist who got exactly what was asked and then converted to Christianity? They are labeled as a weirdos on an acid trip. I pray that every atheist here has Jesus moment while on earth. Then we can all be a bunch of weirdos together.

They get labelled as 'weirdos' as you put it because their reasons for converting are always feels; never empirical, verifiable evidence.

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24-10-2015, 06:54 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
I can only speak about my own painful path to atheism. I didn't want to be one at all. Much easier to just believe.

But belief without proof is just faith.

And I want more. I might as well kept believing in Santa.

Also prayer is useless. So pray all you want, but just don't say I have to think as you do and keep your beliefs out of the schools and government.


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24-10-2015, 06:58 PM
Talmud, OT and morality of god
Really not sure why theists seem so curious about what would convert us. It's very simple: proof. Not just feelings. Back when I was a theist I researched things, even wrote about why God existed. Even went into mysticism.

I'm the one who had a vision and now doesn't believe. I have survived deadly illnesses. If anyone should believe in miracles or "Jesus moments," you'd think I would.

So here's my answer to what would convert me: I don't know, but a god would know.
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24-10-2015, 07:43 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
So you would have ratherded they just killed all indesciminatly? And yes, it is very easy to spot inconsistencies. All you have to do is read other scriptures. The points that are the same and equally beneficial to all are right. The things that single out people over others in any way are placed by the greed of men. Real easy.
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24-10-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 06:54 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I can only speak about my own painful path to atheism. I didn't want to be one at all. Much easier to just believe.

But belief without proof is just faith.

And I want more. I might as well kept believing in Santa.

Also prayer is useless. So pray all you want, but just don't say I have to think as you do and keep your beliefs out of the schools and government.
Why would you separate the two. It's like atheists think that if you believe in science you can't also have faith in God. Why is that?
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24-10-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 07:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 06:54 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I can only speak about my own painful path to atheism. I didn't want to be one at all. Much easier to just believe.

But belief without proof is just faith.

And I want more. I might as well kept believing in Santa.

Also prayer is useless. So pray all you want, but just don't say I have to think as you do and keep your beliefs out of the schools and government.
Why would you separate the two. It's like atheists think that if you believe in science you can't also have faith in God. Why is that?

Might come as a surprise to your delicate sensibilities, but science had zero to do with my atheism.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-10-2015, 07:59 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 07:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So you would have ratherded they just killed all indesciminatly? And yes, it is very easy to spot inconsistencies. All you have to do is read other scriptures. The points that are the same and equally beneficial to all are right. The things that single out people over others in any way are placed by the greed of men. Real easy.

[Image: 640?cb=20141015005232]

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24-10-2015, 08:03 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(24-10-2015 07:59 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 07:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So you would have ratherded they just killed all indesciminatly? And yes, it is very easy to spot inconsistencies. All you have to do is read other scriptures. The points that are the same and equally beneficial to all are right. The things that single out people over others in any way are placed by the greed of men. Real easy.

[Image: 640?cb=20141015005232]

I ignored that word salad. It made no sense at all...maybe we need a gawdidit® secret decoder ring to figure it out?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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