Talmud, OT and morality of god
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25-10-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:28 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 06:03 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  God is merciful though and does answer prayers of those who are in need and in Faith and try to follow the word of God.

That's quite a claim. Please identify the studies that show that people who pray actually do have better outcomes than people who don't. If you can't show a statistically significant difference between believers and non-believers then that claim is meaningless.
I have witnessed prayers being answered. My own and others. It has little to do with any statistic though.
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25-10-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:07 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 06:03 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  And I own a very successful business and treat my employees fairly, for instance those that wish to stay working for me I push an awl through their earlobe into a door to signify as much.

Deuteronomy
16 ”It shall come about if he says to you, ‘I will not go out from you,' because he loves you and your household, since he fares well with you; 17 then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your maidservant. 18 “It shall not seem hard to you when you set him free, for he has given you six years with double the service of a hired man; so the LORD your God will bless you in whatever you do.
You know because every atheist who quotes old testament law is an expert on the social/economic norms of the time.

You don't have to be an expert on the societal norms of the culture to see that as a barbaric act. You don't have to be a biblical expert to see that this was enshrined in the laws along with not murdering, not stealing, not eating shellfish, and stoning unruly children. You don't have to be a philosopher to understand that waving away the problems with "but god couldn't upset the economic norms of the time" is complete and utter bullshit.

I'm very glad that the majority of xians today do discount large sections of the old laws as no longer meaningful. I wish they'd do the same with more of it. I just wonder where they get their morality from. It can't be from later teachings in the same book because they'd have to be applying some criteria to decide which is the correct view and that has to be external to the book.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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25-10-2015, 06:35 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:08 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm sorry, if you had a point I missed it. Happens often.

And the award for understatement of the year goes to...

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25-10-2015, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2015 06:41 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:28 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Never met a Christian who was an atheist?

Yes, I've never met atheist who became christian (discounting children). I've only heard that such thing happens but then I've also heard that Bigfoot exists.

(25-10-2015 05:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  They are on this forum. I can count at least three. Heck if you read earlier posts on this thread you would see that.

They claim to be that. And if true I still didn't met them.

(25-10-2015 05:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why can't atheist ever admit that they are wrong about something epically when it comes to biblical teachings.

Why theists are so arrogant and unable to admit that their shitty apologetics is just that?

(25-10-2015 05:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  If I was to say that the bible says the sky is blue I would have at least three people say "uh.. well actually you see the sky is not really blue because uh.. (fill in blank) so once again the bible is wrong.

Certainly Rolleyes.

(25-10-2015 05:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Ok. I know I am just venting at this point and I got it out of my system now. You guys are awesome. I hope it was to your amusement.

I don't need you to tell me I'm awesome. And as far amusement goes it is nothing more than small laugh.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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25-10-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 05:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ...
Scripture clearly states that
...

Did you explain somewhere why what your scripture states should matter?

(25-10-2015 06:09 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 07:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  <displayed his ignorance and inhumanity>

... or willfully dishonest ...

This gets my vote.

He's not worth the shit on your shoe.

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25-10-2015, 06:40 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:28 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 06:03 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  God is merciful though and does answer prayers of those who are in need and in Faith and try to follow the word of God.

That's quite a claim. Please identify the studies that show that people who pray actually do have better outcomes than people who don't. If you can't show a statistically significant difference between believers and non-believers then that claim is meaningless.

“And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health...d=all&_r=0

Laugh out load

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-10-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:30 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 06:28 AM)unfogged Wrote:  That's quite a claim. Please identify the studies that show that people who pray actually do have better outcomes than people who don't. If you can't show a statistically significant difference between believers and non-believers then that claim is meaningless.
I have witnessed prayers being answered. My own and others. It has little to do with any statistic though.

Of course it has.

Stochasticity...
http://www.radiolab.org/story/91684-stochasticity/

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-10-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:18 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It was a question. You said that pows were still taken against their will. So I asked if you thought they would have preferred death through war. Obviously they chose to be slaves or they would have died on the battlefield.

You are presenting a false dichotomy. Death and slavery are not the only options possible. You are also ignoring the fact that the men were generally all killed and it was the women and children who were taken as slaves.

Quote:No if you read scripture and not go off of what others preach then you get the message. I talk with many religious people and the majority of them all have very similar views. That's not because they all get something different from scripture. It's because they can read and comprehend.

No, it's much more likely that it is because we, as a society, have modified our thinking about what is morally acceptable. You grow up today learning that slavery is wrong and we can explain why it is wrong based on simple empathy. When believers read the bible they pick and choose based on what they already accept as morally good and, in most cases, that precludes slavery. That doesn't mean that the bible can't be used to support slavery -- it has been and when you read the text without the preconception that it is god-inspired in some way you can see that clearly.

Quote:What other moral guidelines. Your conscience is your guide to morality. It is spoken of in numerous scriptures including the bible.

I'd agree but I suspect you mean something different than I do by conscience. The authors of the bible were humans and not very unlike us so I'd expect them to talk about it.

Quote:Not sure if you noticed, but you take what I say out of context all he time, and verses of the bible too most likely.

Wow. Irony overload.

Quote:I don't really feel persicuted. I know my place. The only persecution I have to deal with is my own.

I have help.

You have an imaginary friend. I did too, when I was 4 or so (no, it wasn't a god). I grew up.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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25-10-2015, 06:50 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:30 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 06:28 AM)unfogged Wrote:  That's quite a claim. Please identify the studies that show that people who pray actually do have better outcomes than people who don't. If you can't show a statistically significant difference between believers and non-believers then that claim is meaningless.
I have witnessed prayers being answered. My own and others. It has little to do with any statistic though.

Anecdotal coincidence.

Prayer only 'works' when you look at it backward...then you can make it fit your narrative.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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25-10-2015, 06:55 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 06:30 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I have witnessed prayers being answered. My own and others. It has little to do with any statistic though.

You have witnessed good things happening to people. So have I, to theists and atheists alike. I've also seen bad things happen. Strangely enough, the rates at which these things happen don't seem to differ. Random chance is an amazing thing. Consider that with 7 billion people on the planet a one-in-a-million event could be happening to 7000 people today.

If you can't demonstrate that your answered prayer is more that a random event then you have no legitimate reason to ascribe a cause to it, especially not a supernatural cause for which no evidence exists.

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