Talmud, OT and morality of god
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-10-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 09:07 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  ... Once upon a time on the forum I ran a statistical probability of having three airplane passengers with the same birthday sitting side by side on the same row. It happens way more often than one would imagine ...

Revisualizing the occurrence helps "see" it properly: Fill a bottle with 200 pills, each pill with a random number from 1 to 365 stamped on it. How surprising would it be to find three pills immediately adjacent each other with the same number? Now look for that occurrence in 1,000,000 such bottles - how surprising would it be to NEVER see it in any of the bottles?

This is a decent book on the subject

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes unfogged's post
25-10-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 10:17 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 09:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think my focus is going to be coming across as truly interested in Christianity. I will ask them to explain to me why I should believe in God but they can't use the bible to show me.

I have to say, Jason, I'm impressed. You heard a claim you wanted to confirm-or-deny, you set up experimental parameters to test your hypothesis, and you are going to use the scientific method in its entirety if you use us as a "Peer Review" process to make sure your approach/methodology is bias-free, neutral data-gathering.

I'm not pulling your chain... I'm actually impressed that a theist heard a claim they could not auto-accept, and decided instead to conduct a scientific test to see if they could confirm the hypothetical (claim). High-five, JD.

Thumbsup
Geee thanksShy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 09:07 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  ... Once upon a time on the forum I ran a statistical probability of having three airplane passengers with the same birthday sitting side by side on the same row. It happens way more often than one would imagine ...

Revisualizing the occurrence helps "see" it properly: Fill a bottle with 200 pills, each pill with a random number from 1 to 365 stamped on it. How surprising would it be to find three pills immediately adjacent each other with the same number? Now look for that occurrence in 1,000,000 such bottles - how surprising would it be to NEVER see it in any of the bottles?

It takes education to train our minds to perceive statistics properly. A friend of mine who has surpassed his 3,000,000th flight mile without incident asked me if his "number" was more likely to "come up" on some future flight. I thought about it and told him his odds were actually improving: his flight experience was the same as crossing a minefield where the chances of stepping on a mine at any point in the field were, say, 100,000 to 1 against. However, the odds of hitting a mine trying to cross the field are higher, since each step multiplies the exposure to the risk. The larger the minefield, the greater the risk.

But at his stage of life, the remaining "minefield" is much smaller than it was when he flew his first mile. And each successfully concluded flight leaves him facing a steadily decreasing minefield. Whenever he makes his last flight, his odds will have shrunk to the 1 in 100,000 that apply to any one flight.

Hmm...correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the odds of the event happening wouldn't change depending on how many times you do it. Kinda like flipping a coin 10 times and getting all tails, doesn't mean you're more likely to get a heads next time. It would always be 50-50. I might not understand what you're getting at though.

A man should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. -Ferris Bueller

That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom. -Jack Sparrow
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 10:52 AM)Imathinker Wrote:  Hmm...correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the odds of the event happening wouldn't change depending on how many times you do it. Kinda like flipping a coin 10 times and getting all tails, doesn't mean you're more likely to get a heads next time. It would always be 50-50. I might not understand what you're getting at though.

You're right - each occurrence has the same odds, regardless of prior outcomes.

So, how can throwing 10 heads in a row have (this is not the right number but use it for example) a 1 in 1000 chance, yet after throwing 9 heads in a row, the odds of 10 in a row are now 50-50? That apparent paradox bothered me for a long time until I realized that the ALREADY ACHIEVED sequence of 9 heads in a row had brought the odds of getting 10 in a row down to 50-50. Each successive tossed head kept ratcheting the 10 in a row odds lower and lower.

The odds for each instance are not the same odds for a series - the series odds INCLUDE A SUCCESSION of outcomes. Each incremental success of a series outcome lowers the odds of reaching the full series until the final toss matches the odds of a single instance.

Hope that helps.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Airportkid's post
25-10-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 09:59 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ...
I think my focus is going to be coming across as truly interested in Christianity. I will ask them to explain to me why I should believe in God but they can't use the bible to show me.

"What do you mean "can't"? You come here and start making demands ... etc."

Place your bets, ladles and gentlespoons. I give it 48 hours or 15 posts.

I admire your pluck, JD. Don't forget to give us the link.

Thumbsup

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
25-10-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Found it! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ity?page=2

(25-10-2015 06:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  You have witnessed good things happening to people. So have I, to theists and atheists alike. I've also seen bad things happen. Strangely enough, the rates at which these things happen don't seem to differ. Random chance is an amazing thing. Consider that with 7 billion people on the planet a one-in-a-million event could be happening to 7000 people today.

If you can't demonstrate that your answered prayer is more that a random event then you have no legitimate reason to ascribe a cause to it, especially not a supernatural cause for which no evidence exists.

Once upon a time on the forum I ran a statistical probability of having three airplane passengers with the same birthday sitting side by side on the same row. It happens way more often than one would imagine.

Has to be a miracle.
You could say that what happened to me personally was an act of nature if you consider nature to be not fully understood by man. My salvation was indeed extraordinary. And five years later I still remember it strongly. If you can consider burden, pain, anger, and hate being instantly and miraculously being lifted while your whole life up to that point was revealed to you in a wholly different and meaningful way to be natural. Can't forget gaining insight on how to condone yourself and insight on how to help others for the greater good. And five years later reading scripture only to find that it matches what you wrote in remembrance of your experience years earlier. See, I never read the bible or went to church and have always been anti. So explain to me how someone who hated all including self could possibly in one moment be completely changed, and then explain how that individual who never opened a bible out of non belief and spite just happened to gain insight from an outside source that correlates with the teachings of the books they never bothered to read and the teachings of the son of God that that individual never believed in.

The other instance that came to mind was a matter of a check being mailed to someone from a city government with no reason or purpose. Mind you that this isn't necessarily a miracle, but is it something that two people prayed for not knowing the other had prayed for it. How often does the gov., at any level mail out a check with no explanation? I prayed that this person would find financial help. Evidently, she had prayed something similar around the same time.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 11:16 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Found it! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ity?page=2


Once upon a time on the forum I ran a statistical probability of having three airplane passengers with the same birthday sitting side by side on the same row. It happens way more often than one would imagine.

Has to be a miracle.
You could say that what happened to me personally was an act of nature if you consider nature to be not fully understood by man. My salvation was indeed extraordinary. And five years later I still remember it strongly. If you can consider burden, pain, anger, and hate being instantly and miraculously being lifted while your whole life up to that point was revealed to you in a wholly different and meaningful way to be natural. Can't forget gaining insight on how to condone yourself and insight on how to help others for the greater good. And five years later reading scripture only to find that it matches what you wrote in remembrance of your experience years earlier. See, I never read the bible or went to church and have always been anti. So explain to me how someone who hated all including self could possibly in one moment be completely changed, and then explain how that individual who never opened a bible out of non belief and spite just happened to gain insight from an outside source that correlates with the teachings of the books they never bothered to read and the teachings of the son of God that that individual never believed in.

The other instance that came to mind was a matter of a check being mailed to someone from a city government with no reason or purpose. Mind you that this isn't necessarily a miracle, but is it something that two people prayed for not knowing the other had prayed for it. How often does the gov., at any level mail out a check with no explanation? I prayed that this person would find financial help. Evidently, she had prayed something similar around the same time.

Yeah, well I would like to hear about unanswered prayers...from people who really need help and really believe that help is out there.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
25-10-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 11:16 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Found it! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ity?page=2


Once upon a time on the forum I ran a statistical probability of having three airplane passengers with the same birthday sitting side by side on the same row. It happens way more often than one would imagine.

Has to be a miracle.
You could say that what happened to me personally was an act of nature if you consider nature to be not fully understood by man. My salvation was indeed extraordinary. And five years later I still remember it strongly. If you can consider burden, pain, anger, and hate being instantly and miraculously being lifted while your whole life up to that point was revealed to you in a wholly different and meaningful way to be natural. Can't forget gaining insight on how to condone yourself and insight on how to help others for the greater good. And five years later reading scripture only to find that it matches what you wrote in remembrance of your experience years earlier. See, I never read the bible or went to church and have always been anti. So explain to me how someone who hated all including self could possibly in one moment be completely changed, and then explain how that individual who never opened a bible out of non belief and spite just happened to gain insight from an outside source that correlates with the teachings of the books they never bothered to read and the teachings of the son of God that that individual never believed in.

The other instance that came to mind was a matter of a check being mailed to someone from a city government with no reason or purpose. Mind you that this isn't necessarily a miracle, but is it something that two people prayed for not knowing the other had prayed for it. How often does the gov., at any level mail out a check with no explanation? I prayed that this person would find financial help. Evidently, she had prayed something similar around the same time.

Humans are a pattern seeking animal. Nothing above is proof of the supernatural.
Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Full Circle's post
25-10-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 11:21 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 11:16 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You could say that what happened to me personally was an act of nature if you consider nature to be not fully understood by man. My salvation was indeed extraordinary. And five years later I still remember it strongly. If you can consider burden, pain, anger, and hate being instantly and miraculously being lifted while your whole life up to that point was revealed to you in a wholly different and meaningful way to be natural. Can't forget gaining insight on how to condone yourself and insight on how to help others for the greater good. And five years later reading scripture only to find that it matches what you wrote in remembrance of your experience years earlier. See, I never read the bible or went to church and have always been anti. So explain to me how someone who hated all including self could possibly in one moment be completely changed, and then explain how that individual who never opened a bible out of non belief and spite just happened to gain insight from an outside source that correlates with the teachings of the books they never bothered to read and the teachings of the son of God that that individual never believed in.

The other instance that came to mind was a matter of a check being mailed to someone from a city government with no reason or purpose. Mind you that this isn't necessarily a miracle, but is it something that two people prayed for not knowing the other had prayed for it. How often does the gov., at any level mail out a check with no explanation? I prayed that this person would find financial help. Evidently, she had prayed something similar around the same time.

Humans are a pattern seeking animal. Nothing above is proof of the supernatural.
Drinking Beverage
Didn't say it wasn't. Quite the opposite actually. So explain my first description in a known naturally occurring way please. thanks.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(25-10-2015 11:30 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 11:21 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Humans are a pattern seeking animal. Nothing above is proof of the supernatural.
Drinking Beverage
Didn't say it wasn't. Quite the opposite actually. So explain my first description in a known naturally occurring way please. thanks.

Here you go. Empathogens.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: