Talmud, OT and morality of god
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26-10-2015, 10:38 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Well there's not really any evidence to discuss so why would they be eager to talk about it? If there was good evidence they would share it with you.

A man should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. -Ferris Bueller

That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom. -Jack Sparrow
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26-10-2015, 10:38 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(26-10-2015 10:24 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 09:57 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  In your other posts as j_d you specifically mentioned you were a christian. You can't play both sides of the fence and expect the same treatment as an atheist.
I can see how one can believe I am trying to be on both sides of the fence. I assure you that I am a Christian. This is just an experiment to see how christians react to atheist. If you read the thread on the Christian Forum that I created you can see that I never actually said I was an atheist. I tried to be very careful of my words. I never actually said I personally denied the existence of god because I believe it is a sin for a christian to deny god. All I am asking in that forum is for christians to show me evidence that the bible can be a credible source and if there is anything outside the bible that is "evidence" not necessarily "proof" of the existance of god.

If you want to see the christian reaction to an atheist, you have to play an atheist. You cannot play "christian asking uncomfortable questions" and get the same reaction.

(26-10-2015 10:26 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I will honestly say that I am really disturbed at how quickly I was being shut down for simply asking what evidence supports the credibility of the bible and the existence of god.

Welcome to our world. And you're only standing at the window looking in.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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26-10-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
It is frustrating because I know the answers to these questions. I just want to hear one person from that site tell me one. I can think of at least three points that show that the bible can be a credible source. Now in no way can I say that it is "proof".
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26-10-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
But I emphasized that all I wanted was evidence not proof.
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26-10-2015, 11:04 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
This is what someone posted on the Christian forum. Anyone want to respond? I will post the response on the forum.

[quote uid=381745 name="Delizzle" post=68775885]Many Christians and theist try to convert atheist to believe in God. However, atheists do not believe the bible. They look at it as a fairy tail that is created by man in order to make up answers to what they cannot explain. Many Christians are failing to convince atheist to the existence of God because of several reasons:<br />1. They try to use scripture. Atheist don't think the bible is a credible source to prove the existence of God. It is like reading a nursery rhyme to prove that cows can jump over the moon. Show me proof outside the bible for the existence of God.<br />2. Most Christians try to approach an atheist with the assumption that they don't know what is in the bible. In reality, most atheist know more about the bible than most christians. Atheist get bombarded by Christians all the time with people trying to "save their souls" so most study scripture in depth in order to look for ammunition for a counter attack.<br /><br />Now I assure you that I am not trying to start any trouble. I have some serious questions about the existence of God. But in order to convince an atheist you have to show the scientific evidence that supports such an existance. I just figured a Christian forum is the best source to get answers about Christianity. Thank you.[/QUOTE]<br /><br />I am not sure I, nor anyone, can convince you to believe something you do not want to believe. I assume (maybe incorrectly) if you have some serious questions about the existence of God that your stance isn't a closed book yet. I have spent some time lately thinking through how I can explain why I believe in, not just a God, but a God who cares about us and desires a relationship with us to someone who questions the existence of God. As you stated, the Bible is not evidence to those who do not believe. This is where my head is in this process.<br /><br />I began thinking about how we even got here. Why there is anything at all and not just vast nothingness. Why is there an unfathomably large universe with an earth that is inhabited by humans and other life forms. And why is everything so complex and intricate? I began to try and think of possibilities as to how this came to be and these are the options I came up with (you may can think of more): Reality is an illusion, Reality is/was self-created, Reality is eternal, Reality was created by something eternal.<br /><br />Reality is an illusion seems to fold in on itself as an illusions require SOMETHING to experience the illusion. So there is something real and to quote Rene Descartes, "I think, therefore, I am." This just doesn't seem like a believable option to me.<br /><br />Reality is/was self-created seems analytically false. In order for reality to be self-created it would have already had to be in existence to create. This does nothing but create a "chicken or the egg" scenario in determining the beginning. Plus I have no knowledge of anything creating itself before it was created. This seems like even less a viable option than reality is an illusion.<br /><br />This leaves us with reality is eternal or reality was created by something eternal. Both of these certainly are difficult to say the least because my finite mind struggles with the concept of eternity but as best as I can follow these are the best two options available. In my mind, something has to be eternal. Maybe I am wrong but I can't get on board with something suddenly forming out of nothing. I have never seen nothing create something. And clearly we have a vast, beautiful, and amazing universe so something exists. My own life experience would suggest that creation points to a creator causing me to lean towards an eternal something creating reality. Furthermore, science shows the universe isn't eternal because we see that everything has an end. If it has an end it isn't eternal. So the idea of reality being eternal makes less sense to me than an eternal something creating reality. By process of elimination I am brought to the conclusion that something had to be eternal and it makes more sense in my mind that what is eternal is a creator.<br /><br />Now, if an eternal Creator God created the universe then it stands to reason there is a purpose for the creation. Creations serve a purpose; there is a cause so what is the cause for an eternal Creator God creating all of this and all of us? If we work from the understanding that an effect must resemble its cause then maybe we can discover some things about this eternal Creator God through our very existence.<br /><br />This eternal Creator God must be supernatural in nature (created space)<br />This eternal Creator God must be powerful (created this universe)<br />This eternal Creator God must be omnipresent (created space yet is not limited by it or to it)<br />This eternal Creator God must be timeless and changless (created time and is not limited by it)<br />This eternal Creator God must be immaterial (transcends space and the physical)<br />This eternal Creator God must be personal (the impersonal cannot create personality)<br />This eternal Creator God must be infinite and singular (you cannot have two infinities)<br />This eternal Creator God must be diverse yet unified (both exist in nature)<br />This eternal Creator God must be intelligent (Only something cognitive can create cognitive beings)<br />This eternal Creator God must be purposeful (Science shows how deliberate and intricate this universe is)<br />This eternal Creator God must be moral (No innate moral law or acquired moral law can be had without a giver)<br />This eternal Creator God must be caring (or no moral laws of any kind would have been given)<br /><br />There are probably more but this should suffice. These are some of the discoveries made just from observing our existence and the universe we live in.<br /><br />This brings me to the question, does any religion have a God that meets these requirements and the answer is yes. The God we see in the Bible matches these descriptions. I don't know if this is what you were looking for but this is what I have to offer you. An explanation outside of faith in why I believe in the God you read about in the Bible.
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26-10-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Now I just asked about the morality of God. Why OT law teaches to kill rebellious kids and stone people for adultery yet god teaches love.
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26-10-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(26-10-2015 09:28 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ...
If you read the thread on the Christian Forum that I created you can see that I never actually said I was an atheist. I tried to be very careful of my words.
...

Perhaps you didn't notice this?

Delizzle
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I'm assuming this is you and you are also ...

jason_delisle
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Delizzle and delisle ... it shouldn't be too hard to work it's the same person.

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26-10-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(26-10-2015 11:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 09:28 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ...
If you read the thread on the Christian Forum that I created you can see that I never actually said I was an atheist. I tried to be very careful of my words.
...

Perhaps you didn't notice this?

Delizzle
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I'm assuming this is you and you are also ...

jason_delisle
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Delizzle and delisle ... it shouldn't be too hard to work it's the same person.
Oh dear. I did not mean to put that on there. I set it to atheist when I was setting up the profile and I thought I changed it. That is my bad. Human error.
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26-10-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
As you have probably noticed that technology is not my strong attributes.
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26-10-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
And again, you're playing both sides of the fence.

Had you "confessed" that you were atheist, you would have been asked to STFU.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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