Talmud, OT and morality of god
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27-10-2015, 08:40 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:34 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Jason - IT DOES NOT OFFEND US when you share your beliefs.

I can personally attest to this. They may not agree with my beliefs, they may question my reasoning, but my beliefs in and of themselves have never been met with disrespect or aggression.

The people on this forum are kind, respectful, and they know how it feels to have their own views belittled and sneered at. They're not going to do this to you in return if you just present things with respect and courtesy.
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27-10-2015, 08:40 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2015 08:44 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  When I first arrived at this site there was a lot of talk about tolerance and acceptance on everyone's beliefs.

I don't care how you live you life but I find religion - not only your - to be stupid and harmful. I will say this when I please but that's all, it's you who waste life living with delusion.

(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Yet when I do, the out cry is obvious theist are not really accepted or appreciated on this site.

You're not banned so you're accepted. As for appreciation I don't know about others but I see nothing to appreciate about you.

(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  That it is really no better than the Christian forum I was kicked from.

You aren't met with universal approval so forum is bad?

(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I would like for everyone to believe in Christ but I am not going force my belief on them or shoe judgment toward them?

I'll find it kinda disturbing that you're so concerned with others lives. I don't like religion but I couldn't care less if people live in delusion; it's their life after all, not mine.

(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  The only thing I request from everyone is mutual respect.

Respect is earned and I don't see you giving it.

(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Not to have every line on every post be picked apart and used as ammunition against me.

Everything you write can be used against you. It should not be surprising.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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27-10-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:40 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  The only thing I request from everyone is mutual respect.

Respect is earned and I don't see you giving it.

Minor quibble, comrade Szuchow. I think he's trying to give it. I actually like that he used the term "mutual respect", which automatically implies that the level of respect received should be commensurate with the amount given.

Unlike too many of the theists here, who come in so confident in their beliefs that they not only won't really listen to our responses, but who try to tell us what we believe (based on caricatures provided by their pastors, usually), he actually does appear to think it's possible to be a good person and an atheist at the same time, and does appear to be trying to fit in as a member of the community rather than an antagonist to it.

I'm willing to forgive past faux pas in light of that change/attitude.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-10-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:34 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Jason - IT DOES NOT OFFEND US when you share your beliefs. We only get offended when told what we believe by others, or when we're fed magical-thinking nonsense and get called names for calling it out as bullshit.

You really need to let go of the Christian martyr complex, which says that we will hate you for your beliefs. Many of us are dating or married to Christians, best friends with them, etc. I myself am engaged to be married to one.

It's when you keep saying, "I'm sorry my beliefs offend you" that we get offended, not when you tell us what those beliefs are. Not listening to us is offensive. Telling us lies is offensive. But there is nothing offensive about Christianity... except for the aggression and psychological manipulation that is all-too-common among the highly devout (like throwing people out of families for nonbelief, or trying to ruin the social reputation of an atheist, which happens almost every time one of us comes out of that closet), none of us have an issue with what you choose to believe!

Please, please, please get that through your head.
I never claimed that I was hated here. I am only making a point that for people to say they are "offended" when I say I am praying for them or jokingly use a term "flamboyant atheist" to describe the bigots in the atheist community and then at every opportunity they call my God a hate filled spaghetti monster.

Do you think that after living with agnostic atheist for 2 years I never heard those insults before? Yet never once did I ever get offended by it. Neither did my roommates get offended when I called atheist bigots "flamboyant ". Would it be better if I just simply called them ass holes? Is that less offensive to everyone. Every group has that ass hole who makes everyone look bad. I just felt the term flamboyant was a little more tactful.
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27-10-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
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27-10-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:44 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Minor quibble, comrade Szuchow. I think he's trying to give it. I actually like that he used the term "mutual respect", which automatically implies that the level of respect received should be commensurate with the amount given.

There is no try as Yoda used to say Wink.

Also I don't see him trying. Maybe I'm biased or have trouble with translating but I won't say that Jason is trying. I think he's just less douchey than theistic trolls invading the forum.

(27-10-2015 08:44 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Unlike too many of the theists here, who come in so confident in their beliefs that they not only won't really listen to our responses, but who try to tell us what we believe (based on caricatures provided by their pastors, usually), he actually does appear to think it's possible to be a good person and an atheist at the same time, and does appear to be trying to fit in as a member of the community rather than an antagonist to it.

I'm willing to forgive past faux pas in light of that change/attitude.

When compared with trolls he don't look so bad, but it's hardly impressive. Apart from all that bussiness with christian forum I don't see nothing new in his writing. Same shit as other believers - I'll pray for you and all that jazz.

Also I'm kinda dickish Wink.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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27-10-2015, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2015 09:12 AM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:27 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 07:54 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  You hope that we lose our reason and submit to an ignorant, hate-filled death cult. And you're surprised that some find that insulting? Huh
I was praying for blessings. If that offends you I am sorry. Just out of curiosity, other than telling you what I personally believe, when did I ever judge you or anyone on this site or force my views on them. I am a republican but I have friends who are democrat. Should it offend me when they say how wonderful a president Hillary will be? When I first arrived at this site there was a lot of talk about tolerance and acceptance on everyone's beliefs. That "we are not like those other sites". I then hear people tell me to just say my opinion and don't try to explain things on behalf of other Christians. Yet when I do, the out cry is obvious theist are not really accepted or appreciated on this site. That it is really no better than the Christian forum I was kicked from. I really hope that is wrong. People accuse me of being "holier than thou". When did I ever say I was better than anyone? Did I not say I would rather befriend an atheist who has strong morals over a wicked christian? There is a reason why I am non-denominational. It is because the most wicked people I have ever met are in the churches. I appreciate atheist for their honesty. They are not trying to put up an image. They are not trying to make people believe something about them they are not. They don't have to prove anything to anyone. Does it offend you that I tell you that as a Christian, yes...I would like for everyone to believe in Christ but I am not going force my belief on them or shoe judgment toward them? Would it offend you if you had a friend who told you he/she was voting for Donald Trump but never harassed you for supporting Hillary? The only thing I request from everyone is mutual respect. Not to have every line on every post be picked apart and used as ammunition against me. I understand that there will be a lot of friendly "rips" here and there. Also don't forget I am an active duty Marine in the United States Armed Forces so I can take a punch. I am not easily offended. I just ask you to do the same.

I think there's a slight disconnect going on here. This is a place for atheists. For many of us who must interact daily with the "I'll pray for you" crowd, this has become our home.

Now, you haven't come in and shit on our rug, like so many others have, but farts leave a stink too.

Saying you respect us, our views even our disbelief is fine, but then you tell us that you're praying for us or hope we rerurn to Christ, it is a bit like a fart in church. Funny but unwelcome.

I get you want to demonstrate the whole Christian love, understanding and grace thing -- just don't make it sound so condenscending and we'll be fine.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-10-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
They think "I'll pray for you" is a compliment (except in the Deep South, where "I'll pray for you" means "fuck off you asshole" in theist-speak), and really if you think about it, it is a compliment: from their point of view, they are communicating with the master of creation on our behalf. It is, to their minds, the kindest thing they can do.

The fact that we find talking to one's invisible Imaginary Friend to be amusing is beside the point.

Edit to Add: Moms brings up a good point... the intent is everything. When telling atheists in their home-territory that you're praying for them, it can feel quite a bit condescending and demeaning. Theists should be careful when expressing what they consider a kindness. For instance, a fratboy might think "Hey girl you have great tits" is a compliment, the nicest thing they could say to her... and then they're shocked (shocked, I tell you!) when she replies "Fuck off, asshole!"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-10-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:51 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 08:34 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Jason - IT DOES NOT OFFEND US when you share your beliefs. We only get offended when told what we believe by others, or when we're fed magical-thinking nonsense and get called names for calling it out as bullshit.

You really need to let go of the Christian martyr complex, which says that we will hate you for your beliefs. Many of us are dating or married to Christians, best friends with them, etc. I myself am engaged to be married to one.

It's when you keep saying, "I'm sorry my beliefs offend you" that we get offended, not when you tell us what those beliefs are. Not listening to us is offensive. Telling us lies is offensive. But there is nothing offensive about Christianity... except for the aggression and psychological manipulation that is all-too-common among the highly devout (like throwing people out of families for nonbelief, or trying to ruin the social reputation of an atheist, which happens almost every time one of us comes out of that closet), none of us have an issue with what you choose to believe!

Please, please, please get that through your head.
I never claimed that I was hated here. I am only making a point that for people to say they are "offended" when I say I am praying for them or jokingly use a term "flamboyant atheist" to describe the bigots in the atheist community and then at every opportunity they call my God a hate filled spaghetti monster.

Do you think that after living with agnostic atheist for 2 years I never heard those insults before? Yet never once did I ever get offended by it. Neither did my roommates get offended when I called atheist bigots "flamboyant ". Would it be better if I just simply called them ass holes? Is that less offensive to everyone. Every group has that ass hole who makes everyone look bad. I just felt the term flamboyant was a little more tactful.

Ah! Okay, I think I see the disconnect here. We're not offended that you think your prayers matter. You can pray until the cows come home and the fact that you're doing it doesn't offend us. What offends us is that you think we're not good enough and that you need to take an active role in changing us.

That's a big problem. Having that attitude and flaunting it to us is not going to win you any fans around here.
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27-10-2015, 09:04 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 08:57 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  They think "I'll pray for you" is a compliment (except in the Deep South, where "I'll pray for you" means "fuck off you asshole" in theist-speak), and really if you think about it, it is a compliment: from their point of view, they are communicating with the master of creation on our behalf. It is, to their minds, the kindest thing they can do.

The fact that we find talking to one's invisible Imaginary Friend to be amusing is beside the point.

But it's kinda like visiting foreign country and doing what you deem polite based on vague knowledge of said country customs and ending embarassing the host.

If you're not sure if your gesture will be appreciated then not do it at all.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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