Talmud, OT and morality of god
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27-10-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Aliza - It simply means the book of military law. That's it. When you sign up, you give up some of your rights as an American Citizen and gain duties and responsibilities specific to military service, which go far above and beyond what is expected of a normal American.

Jason - And that's great, but there's this, in Romans 1:

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

And that's why we get so many of you coming here to basically call us every name on that list. And that's why we react with vitriol and contempt.

Edit to Add: I literally just copy-pasted that out of the AtheistForums.org discussion forum, where a Christian just quoted those verses (and the equally-vile ones before it) at me.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-10-2015, 03:41 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 03:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 03:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Maybe... This isn't exactly my area of expertise. Do you have Marines of your own? What exactly does that mean?

What does the Uniform Code of Military Justice mean? How does it apply to people? This sounds like a very complex problem for which I have absolutely no background at all.

Look, I'm the forum Jew, not the forum military expert.
I am currently in charge of over a hundred Marines. I am sorry if you don't understand. Regrettably it is the best analogy I can come up with.

I don't really care what you do with your Marines. I'm sorry that you got the impression that I do.

Are you one of the people whose in charge or something? Please just don't get them killed, okay?
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27-10-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Listen everyone. I know we are all big boys and girls and we can take care of ourselves. Before we went off on a tangent I just wanted to say that I have really grown to like everyone here and if some jack ass comes to this forum to start trouble throwing the whole "I am a Christian hear me roar" routine, I would take great pleasure to put him in his place. It may also be entertaining for everyone to see first hand the "your nor a true Christian" arguement.
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27-10-2015, 03:47 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 03:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 03:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Maybe... This isn't exactly my area of expertise. Do you have Marines of your own? What exactly does that mean?

What does the Uniform Code of Military Justice mean? How does it apply to people? This sounds like a very complex problem for which I have absolutely no background at all.

Look, I'm the forum Jew, not the forum military expert.
I am currently in charge of over a hundred Marines. I am sorry if you don't understand. Regrettably it is the best analogy I can come up with.

You mean like physically or spiritually?



There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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27-10-2015, 03:49 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 03:45 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  It may also be entertaining for everyone to see first hand the "your nor a true Christian" arguement.

You mean the "you're not a true Christian argument?" Tongue

I think we've all seen that a time or three. Yes

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27-10-2015, 03:50 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 03:10 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Aliza - The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is the specific guidebook of laws that govern those in military service. They have far fewer rights and far more responsibilities than a normal citizen, for obvious reasons. It certainly is a higher standard than civilian law, and rightfully so. His point is that a person may take pride in the fact that they are a good officer, who holds herself to the highest standards of military law and honor, but they do not expect it of others who are not in the military, and do not look down on people who are not in the military who do not practice military rules-- because that would be silly.

But there is no more than one UCMJ? Also people who swear to obey it are doing it with full knowledge of what it entails and they aren't forced by parents to follow that code? There is no ambigious language and multitude of interpretations?

Comparing such code with christianity don't work I would say. Soldier could be held responsible but christian? Which rules are binding for a christian? Why "x" part of the Bible but noy "y"?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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27-10-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 03:49 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 03:45 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  It may also be entertaining for everyone to see first hand the "your nor a true Christian" arguement.

You mean the "you're not a true Christian argument?" Tongue

I think we've all seen that a time or three. Yes

As well as the "you're not a true atheist argument" that happens every few weeks.

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27-10-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 02:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I said Christians should be "held more accountable" as in "more accountable for the standards that are already in place in the bible

That's fair enough, and my take on it would be that many atheists, including me, may be overly sensitive about some ways of stating things that leads to misunderstandings. When you just say they are "held more accountable" it can be heard as something like "because they are better and you are less accountable because you don't understand". You may mean a different standard, or an additional standard, rather than a higher standard but the connotation is "higher".

I'm not trying to argue the point, just to explain that, after years of it being clear that I'm less of a person for not believing, some of the nerves have been rubbed a bit raw. Once people here get to know you there will be much less need to walk on eggshells but we need time to figure out that you aren't trying to say what it may sound like at first blush. Christians aren't MORE accountable than Hindus or Buddhists or Jews or atheists, they are just accountable to a specific standard that may not apply to others or concern them in any way. Same with the UCMJ for military folks vs civilians.

By the way, I think what you were getting at is that you dislike hypocrisy. On that you will get a lot of agreement here. If you claim to be a vegetarian and go around telling everybody how they should be also I don't expect to catch you eating meat. If you claim to be a vegetarian but don't push me to be one as well then we'll get along fine.

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27-10-2015, 03:56 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(27-10-2015 03:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Look, I'm the forum Jew, ...

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

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27-10-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
I don't read that this is a comparison between the two, only that it's an example of a code that people choose to follow (however willingly... you're still under the UCMJ if you're drafted, even though we don't do that anymore) in the military, along with its peripheral unwritten social codes, which gives members a sense of pride and identity... but which they don't expect people not in the military to follow.

A metaphor or analogy, but not intended to be a 100% parallel.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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