Talmud, OT and morality of god
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28-10-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Nothing wrong with provoking if one can take the heat that results from it.
Ok guys. I will go to senseativity training to learn how not to get an atheist offended and provoked because apparently it is very easy to do.

It would be better if you would consider doing something about your persecution complex.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-10-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Nothing wrong with provoking if one can take the heat that results from it.
Ok guys. I will go to senseativity training to learn how not to get an atheist offended and provoked because apparently it is very easy to do.

Sweetie pie, I'm not an atheist. I'm a theist, and I'm telling you that you've been offensive, and that your actions would be considered offensive to any crowd regardless of religion.

As Szuchow said, if you can take the heat, then have fun... but it seems that you can't take the heat. You're dishing it out in heaps, and when the locals bite back, you run around screaming like you're some kind of Christian martyr.

You are not delivering what I would consider to be a minimum level of courtesy, and as a third party on this forum, I'm trying to tell you in the nicest way that I can, that if you feel unwelcome here, it's because you're salting your own field.
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28-10-2015, 01:37 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2015 02:02 PM by unfogged.)
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 12:28 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  With all do respect to everyone on this forum. When I tell you what my beliefs are and explain why. I don't care about what your opinion is. I am not looking for your opinion.

So you can express your opinions but nobody else can respond to them? If you don't want feedback then don't post. That right there is the attitude that gets you the negative responses.

Quote:In no way am I telling anyone here what they ought or ought not do. I am not saying I am better or worse than anyone. I have the impression that the intent from a lot of people here is that you really don't care about my thoughts or perspective.

You are the one who just stated that you don't care about our thoughts and impressions. We are interested in your thoughts and perspective but we're not going to just accept them at face value; we're going to push you to defend them.

Quote:You only want to deconstruct and manipulate my words for your own entertainment.

I think most of us are here because the site is entertaining. You've wandered into a den full of skeptics and deconstructing and analyzing claims is part of our nature. If you just want to post your beliefs without them being critiqued then there are plenty of theistic forums that will be much gentler.

Quote:I believe what I believe and I explained why.

Actually, if you explained why I missed that. All I saw was a claim that you dropped a lot of the dogma but held onto a generic god belief of some sort for personal reasons that you didn't want to get into. I have no idea why you still believe. I am curious since you seem to have seen through much of it already.

Quote:I don't need anyone's justification or approval. If I showed the same amount of respect I have been given I would labeled as hateful and ignorant. You complain when people accuse atheist of being arrogant ass holes but there are a lot of people here that are only feeding the stereotype. If I showed this thread to any Christian how would the behavior that I see here change their opinions of atheist? I am being told that my true colors are coming out when all I do is try to defend myself? Well I argue that I see your true colors coming out.

You don't need our justification or approval, but if you are going to post claims then you are going to be questioned about them. We don't respect ideas that aren't backed up by evidence. That's just the nature of the game when you deal with skeptics.

You have to distinguish between people not respecting you and not respecting the claims you make. If your beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny and criticism then perhaps you should ruminate on why that might be and why you react so defensively to the idea of examining them closely.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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28-10-2015, 01:46 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:29 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Ok guys. I will go to senseativity training to learn how not to get an atheist offended and provoked because apparently it is very easy to do.

It would be better if you would consider doing something about your persecution complex.
If you are referring that holding Christians accountable to the very doctrine they claim to represent a "persecution complex"? Then no. I will not let go of my "persecution complex" and there is nothing you or anyone can say or do to change my opinion on that.
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28-10-2015, 01:47 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2015 01:52 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:27 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  DLJ is a faux Jew. Drinking Beverage
Down-Low Jew?

It's probably something more like Dovi Laban Jankovitz


.... I'm in no position to speak. I have a very Jewish name.
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28-10-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:46 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:29 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It would be better if you would consider doing something about your persecution complex.
If you are referring that holding Christians accountable to the very doctrine they claim to represent a "persecution complex"? Then no. I will not let go of my "persecution complex" and there is nothing you or anyone can say or do to change my opinion on that.

There is nothing that can be said to change believer's opinion. Who would have guessed it?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-10-2015, 01:56 PM
Talmud, OT and morality of god
Jason, chill. I'm being nice for now.
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28-10-2015, 02:02 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:46 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:29 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It would be better if you would consider doing something about your persecution complex.
If you are referring that holding Christians accountable to the very doctrine they claim to represent a "persecution complex"? Then no. I will not let go of my "persecution complex" and there is nothing you or anyone can say or do to change my opinion on that.

I'm not holding you to your doctrine. I'm not especially well-versed in Christian doctrine. Except maybe for a few parts. I do expect you to be polite to people. I think we all expect it! Especially given that you're on foreign ground. If you are not polite to people, then understand that there will be consequences for your actions.

If you apologize for your actions, also understand that it will have to be followed up with a genuine change in your behavior. You can't just say sorry, and then keep doing the same thing over and over. Maybe that kind of thing flies with Christians, but it doesn't fly here.

I have to say, though, I'm utterly flabbergasted that common courtesy isn't a default part of your personality. I very rarely have to encounter people who simply cannot trace resulting actions down to their origins.

YOU ARE BEING RUDE. You are being presumptuous, and you are not behaving as proper guest in someone else's home. Your beliefs don't factor into the equation. IF YOU ARE RUDE, THEN EXPECT BACKLASH. This is intuitive for almost ever other human on the planet.
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28-10-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 01:37 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:28 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  With all do respect to everyone on this forum. When I tell you what my beliefs are and explain why. I don't care about what your opinion is. I am not looking for your opinion.

So you can express your opinions but nobody else can respond to them? If you don't want feedback then don't post. That right there is the attitude that gets you the negative responses.

Quote:In no way am I telling anyone here what they ought or ought not do. I am not saying I am better or worse than anyone. I have the impression that the intent from a lot of people here is that you really don't care about my thoughts or perspective.

You are the one who just stated that you don't care about our thoughts and impressions. We are interested in your thoughts and perspective but we're not going to just accept them at face value; we're going to push you to defend them.

Quote:You only want to deconstruct and manipulate my words for your own entertainment.

I think most of us are here because the site is entertaining. You've wandered into a den full of skeptics and deconstructing and analyzing claims is part of our nature. If you just want to post your beliefs without them being critiqued then there are plenty of theistic forums that will be much gentler.

Quote:I believe what I believe and I explained why.

Actually, if you explained why I missed that. All I saw was a claim that you dropped a lot of the dogma but held onto a generic god belief of some sort for personal reasons that you didn't want to get into. I have no idea why you still believe. I am curious since you seem to have seen through much of it already.

Quote:I don't need anyone's justification or approval. If I showed the same amount of respect I have been given I would labeled as hateful and ignorant. You complain when people accuse atheist of being arrogant ass holes but there are a lot of people here that are only feeding the stereotype. If I showed this thread to any Christian how would the behavior that I see here change their opinions of atheist? I am being told that my true colors are coming out when all I do is try to defend myself? Well I argue that I see your true colors coming out.

You don't need our justification or approval, but if you are going to post claims then you are going to be questioned about them. We don't respect ideas that aren't backed up by evidence. That's just the nature of the game when you deal with skeptics.

You have to distinguish between people not respecting you and not respecting the claims you make. If your beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny and criticism then perhaps you should ruminate on why that might be and why you react do defensively to the idea of examining them closely.
I said "in regard to my beliefs" as in religious faith. I don't care if you disagree with my faith. I am on an atheist site! Of course you don't agree with my faith! When asked, I quote a scripture to explain why I believe what I do. I assumed that it is because of curiosity that you ask questions so I am happy to answer. I believe scripture comes from God. I know you don't believe it and that's fine. It is when I answer questions about my faith only to have my faith attacked and picked apart like I am on trial is where I have a problem.

In short, my religious beliefs comes from the bible. So to try to disprove my beliefs by trying to convince me that the bible is wrong is viewed in my opinion as an attempt to convince me to reject my faith. Thus become an atheist. Honestly, on this site, without trying to search for any "implied meaning" when did I ever try to use scripture or my faith to "convert" anyone? When, without looking for any "implied meanings" did I ever even suggest that anyone on this forum change anything in their current lifestyles by using scripture?

The purpose of me being on this site to answer questions in regards to Christianity. If you ask things like "why would a Christian believe such a crazy thing?", I will use scripture to explain why they would have such a crazy idea. It may or may not be my personal belief but it may explain their thought process.

I am on this site to attempt to set straight any scripture that I believe is taken out of context. I try to be very objective when explaining the context of the scripture. If I don't know something I will do my own research by going through the original old testament hebrew or new testament greek so you are not hearing some regurgitation of some preprogrammed response that I got from some preacher. So when I hear people (including Christians ) use Deuteronomy 21:18-21 to either justify killing kids or make God seem immoral by the standards of men, I will attempt to inform the audience using scripture to disprove this accusations. That is the one time I believe it is acceptable to challah ge my beliefs. If you can uses scripture to show me that my interpretation of the bible is wrong, I welcome it. I encourage it. As a Christian, that is what I would want you to do. Use scripture to disprove my interpretation of the bible is ok. But I am not ok with people using scripture and their personal opinions to disprove my faith.

The third reason why I am on this site is because I am studying to be a chaplain in the military. One of my primary responsibilities as a chaplain is to ensure that every service member's freedoms of religion is protected. That includes atheist. I want to better understand how atheist are treated and how they can be protected from persecution. If an atheist comes to my office asking for help with a personal issue and he requires the confidentiality that is entrusted in a chaplain (can be anything not just spiritual ), I need to know how I can get him to open up to me and avoid accidentally shutting him down.

I am really not upset with anyone here. Yes I am a little frustrated at times but that's to be expected. I am a Christian on an atheist forum after all.
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28-10-2015, 03:01 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 02:50 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:37 PM)unfogged Wrote:  So you can express your opinions but nobody else can respond to them? If you don't want feedback then don't post. That right there is the attitude that gets you the negative responses.


You are the one who just stated that you don't care about our thoughts and impressions. We are interested in your thoughts and perspective but we're not going to just accept them at face value; we're going to push you to defend them.


I think most of us are here because the site is entertaining. You've wandered into a den full of skeptics and deconstructing and analyzing claims is part of our nature. If you just want to post your beliefs without them being critiqued then there are plenty of theistic forums that will be much gentler.


Actually, if you explained why I missed that. All I saw was a claim that you dropped a lot of the dogma but held onto a generic god belief of some sort for personal reasons that you didn't want to get into. I have no idea why you still believe. I am curious since you seem to have seen through much of it already.


You don't need our justification or approval, but if you are going to post claims then you are going to be questioned about them. We don't respect ideas that aren't backed up by evidence. That's just the nature of the game when you deal with skeptics.

You have to distinguish between people not respecting you and not respecting the claims you make. If your beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny and criticism then perhaps you should ruminate on why that might be and why you react do defensively to the idea of examining them closely.
I said "in regard to my beliefs" as in religious faith. I don't care if you disagree with my faith. I am on an atheist site! Of course you don't agree with my faith! When asked, I quote a scripture to explain why I believe what I do. I assumed that it is because of curiosity that you ask questions so I am happy to answer. I believe scripture comes from God. I know you don't believe it and that's fine. It is when I answer questions about my faith only to have my faith attacked and picked apart like I am on trial is where I have a problem.

In short, my religious beliefs comes from the bible. So to try to disprove my beliefs by trying to convince me that the bible is wrong is viewed in my opinion as an attempt to convince me to reject my faith. Thus become an atheist. Honestly, on this site, without trying to search for any "implied meaning" when did I ever try to use scripture or my faith to "convert" anyone? When, without looking for any "implied meanings" did I ever even suggest that anyone on this forum change anything in their current lifestyles by using scripture?

The purpose of me being on this site to answer questions in regards to Christianity. If you ask things like "why would a Christian believe such a crazy thing?", I will use scripture to explain why they would have such a crazy idea. It may or may not be my personal belief but it may explain their thought process.

I am on this site to attempt to set straight any scripture that I believe is taken out of context. I try to be very objective when explaining the context of the scripture. If I don't know something I will do my own research by going through the original old testament hebrew or new testament greek so you are not hearing some regurgitation of some preprogrammed response that I got from some preacher. So when I hear people (including Christians ) use Deuteronomy 21:18-21 to either justify killing kids or make God seem immoral by the standards of men, I will attempt to inform the audience using scripture to disprove this accusations. That is the one time I believe it is acceptable to challah ge my beliefs. If you can uses scripture to show me that my interpretation of the bible is wrong, I welcome it. I encourage it. As a Christian, that is what I would want you to do. Use scripture to disprove my interpretation of the bible is ok. But I am not ok with people using scripture and their personal opinions to disprove my faith.

The third reason why I am on this site is because I am studying to be a chaplain in the military. One of my primary responsibilities as a chaplain is to ensure that every service member's freedoms of religion is protected. That includes atheist. I want to better understand how atheist are treated and how they can be protected from persecution. If an atheist comes to my office asking for help with a personal issue and he requires the confidentiality that is entrusted in a chaplain (can be anything not just spiritual ), I need to know how I can get him to open up to me and avoid accidentally shutting him down.

I am really not upset with anyone here. Yes I am a little frustrated at times but that's to be expected. I am a Christian on an atheist forum after all.

Well then! I misunderstood your intentions. Thank goodness we finally have an educated Christian on this forum to help us understand the bible and guide us in the right direction.
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