Talmud, OT and morality of god
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29-10-2015, 08:58 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 08:34 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:13 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Buddhists tend to treat us very well. In fact, many Buddhists are atheists, because even though Buddhism is derived from Hinduism, it is actually a religion that does not technically have any gods. Siddhartha Gautama was quite clear that even though he was the first to discover the path to Enlightenment (attain Buddha status), he was not a god and should not be worshiped, only followed by example.
Ok. Would it be safe to describe Buddhists as "spiritual atheist" because they don't believe in a god or gods but believe in a spirit or state of being?

While many of them are technically atheists, in the literalist sense, they would probably not appreciate being referred to as such. Also, many of them are not atheists, and hold a belief in higher power(s), and there's no real way to differentiate between the two unless you speak to them for a while. Once you get to that point, and realize that they don't have a god-concept, it might be safe to ask "so technically you're an atheist, right?" But even then, I can't guarantee they'll like the question or you'll like the answer. Heh.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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29-10-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 08:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:25 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I actually find it amusing to see all the hoops they jump through to justify Jesus as Messiah. Matthew apparently puts great stock in "prophecies" (like our own "Q Continuum"), and repeatedly has Jesus doing such-and-such "so that the prophecy might be fulfilled". But he misquotes prophecies, combines prophecies from different sources, etc. -- and then has Jesus simultaneously riding two different animals into Jerusalem because he doesn't understand Hebrew parallelism.

I think Matthew and Luke independently made up different nativity stories (to have "Jesus of Nazareth" born in Bethlehem -- notice how they use completely different methods of making that happen), and different genealogies (to have Jesus be a descendant of David) -- but then shot themselves in the foot by (a) garbling the genealogies, and (b) having Joseph not be the father of Jesus anyway!

It's so obviously contrived that it puzzles me how anyone can believe it.

Matthew made up a prophecy too. No one in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say that the messiah will be a Nazarene -Ie: From the city of Nazareth. (different spelling completely from the people who don't touch grape products or cut their hair)

It also doesn't say anywhere that the messiah will be a Netzir (I can't spell that one in English, sorry. I mean the people who can't touch grape products).

Not even jam?

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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29-10-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 08:02 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Are there some religions that are more tolerant to atheism than others? I understand that if there was an atheist who followed the laws in the Talmud many Jews would be fine but is there any religions are considered better or worse in regards to acceptance towards atheism?
In my personal experience, no religion has that distinction. It's the person. I've talked to assholes in Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Wicca, etc. I guess it all depends on what parts of their beliefs and holy books they're following that day.
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29-10-2015, 02:31 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(28-10-2015 07:58 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I accepted, happily.

I can say with comfortable-for-a-diehard-skeptic certainty that this guy is The Real Deal™, now.

So everybody calm down, please. Smile

Not everyone agrees with you. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-10-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 08:10 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:05 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Some Christian apologists will claim that the reason Matthew's and Luke's genealogies are so different is that one is Joseph's bloodline and one is Mary's. I'm not buying that, though, since they both clearly end with Joseph. Mary is not mentioned, except as Joseph's wife. Ironically, the people who make this claim tend to be Biblical literalists -- but the only way to support their claim is by not] reading these passages literally!

It doesn't matter whose genealogies they are because neither of them passed down the y-chromosome to Jesus. -And both of the genealogies are disqualified. One comes down through a person cursed to lose the crown for all his descendants, and the other goes through Nathan and not Solomon. Both are wrong!

And by virtue of the fact that the NT takes the time to list genealogies, they seem to recognize that the messiah has to come from the house of David. Both of those genealogies DO come from the house of David... just the wrong branches. They list the genealogies because they're giving credibility to the Jewish expectation that messiah will come from David.
That is a very good point and I will honestly said I have never thought about that. I am considering posting another thread on the Christian forum about that and see what happens. I will need to get some popcorn before I watch the show.
Once I make the post I will send you the link.
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29-10-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 02:40 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:10 AM)Aliza Wrote:  It doesn't matter whose genealogies they are because neither of them passed down the y-chromosome to Jesus. -And both of the genealogies are disqualified. One comes down through a person cursed to lose the crown for all his descendants, and the other goes through Nathan and not Solomon. Both are wrong!

And by virtue of the fact that the NT takes the time to list genealogies, they seem to recognize that the messiah has to come from the house of David. Both of those genealogies DO come from the house of David... just the wrong branches. They list the genealogies because they're giving credibility to the Jewish expectation that messiah will come from David.
That is a very good point and I will honestly said I have never thought about that. I am considering posting another thread on the Christian forum about that and see what happens. I will need to get some popcorn before I watch the show.
Once I make the post I will send you the link.

I'll eagerly await their responses. Big Grin
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29-10-2015, 02:51 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 02:50 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 02:40 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  That is a very good point and I will honestly said I have never thought about that. I am considering posting another thread on the Christian forum about that and see what happens. I will need to get some popcorn before I watch the show.
Once I make the post I will send you the link.

I'll eagerly await their responses. Big Grin
I will post it tonight after the boys are in bed.
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29-10-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Btw...thanks to the wonderful people on this forum, the Christian Forum now has an apologetics subforum that you can have your voices heard.

Aliza, after I post the thread, would you like to go on it to present your case?
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29-10-2015, 03:12 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Btw...thanks to the wonderful people on this forum, the Christian Forum now has an apologetics subforum that you can have your voices heard.

Aliza, after I post the thread, would you like to go on it to present your case?

hyperlink please Popcorn

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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29-10-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(29-10-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Btw...thanks to the wonderful people on this forum, the Christian Forum now has an apologetics subforum that you can have your voices heard.

Aliza, after I post the thread, would you like to go on it to present your case?

Sorry, I can't do that. It violates my principals. I can't go onto their territory and offer unsolicited information.

I will answer any question on this forum, or on any Jewish forum if people want to go there, or you can forward their questions and I will answer them <to you> on this forum (and you're welcome to cut and paste my responses). But I cannot go there and advertise.
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