Talmud, OT and morality of god
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22-10-2015, 01:03 AM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2015 02:55 AM by Tonechaser77.)
Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 09:01 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 08:42 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  As usual you have merely asserted your own opinion, void of reason and logical thinking, without addressing any of the issues. *sigh* why do I even try???

Pops please pick up and read some good books on logic / fallacies so you can at least come to the table with a legitimate baseline for coherent discussion. Otherwise you might as well get used to people constantly belittling your incompetent babbling.
My response was to your summary at the end of your exaggerated post. What's wrong with my answer that you feel the need to imply I don't get basic productive thought processes and productive communication(not politician style debate)?

This is so depressing. Hey thanks for creating a beautiful straw man! I NEVER implied you didn't get basic productive thought process. I DID say you need to study how logic works (including fallacies) and apply that to your responses. How do I know this? Because your original statement about morality had multiple logical fallacies and even when I pointed them out you refused to take notice and fix them which is akin to you putting your fingers in your ears and yelling LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! This is why I can reasonably conclude that you shouldn't even be involved in discussions of this caliber.

Let me put it in simple terms:

My post was exaggerated only to the level of your exaggerated ignorance. NOTE: I am not saying you are stupid. You just have a lack of knowledge. This is ignorance.

When are you going to wake up and actually take the advice that people hand to you? You have been given an inordinate amount of opportunities to learn from people in here yet you refuse to grasp this and continue on with your hyper-babble.. And then you wonder why people get so upset. It's quite obvious that you're not here to learn but to prop up your position "according to pops"

**Crickets** -- God
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22-10-2015, 05:54 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 09:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It was more like a means of sustenance at that time. Their were few wealthy. They owned lots of land and cattle. They needed people to manage what the more privileged owned. The less fortunate needed sustenance and shelter. It was similar to work now. You act like it's condoning traditional slavery, when really it's promoting peace, and working, and fair equal treatment given the times and terms.

It is condoning traditional slavery.

Quote:Leviticus
25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.


Isn't the bible supposed to be overflowing with timeless wisdom?

Slavery is wrong. It was wrong then, it is wrong now and in 2000 more years, it will still be wrong.

You can sugar-coat it, you can twist the words, you can play with translations, definitions and cultural differences.
But the fact remains that the bible condones slavery. Traditional, cruel slavery.
By defending that, you degrade your own humanity.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-10-2015, 06:05 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 09:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It was more like a means of sustenance at that time. Their were few wealthy. They owned lots of land and cattle. They needed people to manage what the more privileged owned. The less fortunate needed sustenance and shelter. It was similar to work now. You act like it's condoning traditional slavery, when really it's promoting peace, and working, and fair equal treatment given the times and terms.

As usual,you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. FatBaldHobbit already listed some verses and anybody who reads it without their god glasses on can see that it was slavery and not the more gentle business arrangement that believers like to pretend it was. You don't get to drive an awl through the ear of your employees.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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22-10-2015, 08:18 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(22-10-2015 06:05 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 09:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It was more like a means of sustenance at that time. Their were few wealthy. They owned lots of land and cattle. They needed people to manage what the more privileged owned. The less fortunate needed sustenance and shelter. It was similar to work now. You act like it's condoning traditional slavery, when really it's promoting peace, and working, and fair equal treatment given the times and terms.

As usual,you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. FatBaldHobbit already listed some verses and anybody who reads it without their god glasses on can see that it was slavery and not the more gentle business arrangement that believers like to pretend it was. You don't get to drive an awl through the ear of your employees.
Anyone who can read can see it says for owners to be kind to their workers. And the workers were to be submissive as to not cause the wrath of the owner. A lot of it is also metaphorical.
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22-10-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Hahaha "workers"? You should have said property. BS, that is not metaphorical at all it is clear as day to everyone except you that it endorses slavery.

A man should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. -Ferris Bueller

That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom. -Jack Sparrow
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22-10-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(21-10-2015 10:41 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Aliza has made the point before that there is G-d's law and M-n's Law Laughat ... and they are different.

Clap Well played, DLJ. Well played.
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22-10-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(22-10-2015 08:18 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Anyone who can read can see it says for owners to be kind to their workers. And the workers were to be submissive as to not cause the wrath of the owner. A lot of it is also metaphorical.

Ok, as an aside, that middle sentence is not a point in your favor. Telling someone to be good so they aren't beaten to death is not being kind.

Quote:Exodus 21
21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

So you can beat 'em, just not so much that they die immediately. If they live for a day or two before dying, then you're ok. I dunno, that doesn't sound very "kind" to me. Kinda sick, maybe, but not "kind".

Please quote me the passages that state this is all metaphorical.

And "owners" don't have "workers". They have "slaves". Word games like that are a sign of a weak position if not outright dishonesty in your argument.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-10-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(22-10-2015 08:18 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Anyone who can read can see it says for owners to be kind to their workers. And the workers were to be submissive as to not cause the wrath of the owner. A lot of it is also metaphorical.

You are actually attempting to gloss over slavery and make it sound acceptable. You are a pitiful excuse for a human being.

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America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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22-10-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
(22-10-2015 09:50 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 08:18 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Anyone who can read can see it says for owners to be kind to their workers. And the workers were to be submissive as to not cause the wrath of the owner. A lot of it is also metaphorical.

You are actually attempting to gloss over slavery and make it sound acceptable. You are a pitiful excuse for a human being.

Aw c'mon ... be fair.

That Pops has come out as pro-slavery (metaphorically) is a brave thing to do.

Don't tell me you've never had thoughts about owning another human being. Think how much fun you could have.

Evil_monster

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22-10-2015, 01:01 PM
RE: Talmud, OT and morality of god
Personally, I think it would be nice if the OP (Ruby) returned to this thread to share their own thoughts.

Consider


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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