Teach men not to rape!
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10-06-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:26 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 03:57 PM)Kavos Wrote:  The issue isn't who is to blame. The issue is one of safety and personal responsibility. These feminists don't seem to have any regard for women's safety, which makes one wonder what feminism is really about. Of course the rapist is the one to blame, but to use that as an excuse to tell women that they can just do whatever they like is stupid. If you just do whatever you like without regard to your own safety, then it's kind of like leaving your door open, on purpose, knowing what could happen, and then not accepting any responsibility for the consequences, should they happen. It's just common sense to look after yourself.

No, really, the only people to blame are the rapists. Anything else is victim blaming bullshit. And by coming out with this crap, you are contributing to the rape culture that allows so many people to get away with the crime.

We've already established that the blame lies with the rapist. What we're talking about here right now is personal responsibility.
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10-06-2014, 05:38 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:33 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:26 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  No, really, the only people to blame are the rapists. Anything else is victim blaming bullshit. And by coming out with this crap, you are contributing to the rape culture that allows so many people to get away with the crime.

We've already established that the blame lies with the rapist. What we're talking about here right now is personal responsibility.

It's a bullshit argument, not because people shouldn't take responsibility for their own safety but because there is no single other crime in which so much onus is put on the victim, but only of course when they're a woman. It's victim blaming wrapped up in a smothering cloth of concern.
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10-06-2014, 05:40 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
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10-06-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:32 PM)Kavos Wrote:  You seem to have no regard for women's safety. You would rather see them get raped than be able to take care of themselves. And all because it's not their fault.

Strawman.

Where did I say that I had no regard for women's safety?

Where did I say that I would rather see them get raped than take care of themselves?

And where did I say all the above and explain that it was because it's not the woman's fault?

You don't know anything about me.

Now we know for sure that you have an agenda and want to tar all women and all perceived feminists with the same brush.
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10-06-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:38 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:33 PM)Kavos Wrote:  We've already established that the blame lies with the rapist. What we're talking about here right now is personal responsibility.

It's a bullshit argument, not because people shouldn't take responsibility for their own safety but because there is no single other crime in which so much onus is put on the victim, but only of course when they're a woman. It's victim blaming wrapped up in a smothering cloth of concern.

Well actually it's the feminists who pretend to be concerned for women's wellbeing. They don't want women to be taught to be careful or to learn to protect themselves. If women were to follow the advice of feminists (i.e. hey, do whatever, who cares, it's not your fault if you get raped), there would be more rapes. By contrast, following common sense advice like watch where you go at night and maybe learn a bit of self defence, the result is less rapes. Read that again : Feminists advice = more rapes. Common sense advice = less rapes.

Now tell me who is pretending to be concerned. Me, for promoting common sense advice, or feminists, for not giving a flying fuck about the very people that they claim to represent?

It's quite astonishing that this forum is full of people who consciously and knowingly turn a blind eye to the utter irresponsibility of feminists. Feminists do not represent women at all. They have their own agenda and they are motivated by money. If anyone here still believes that feminism has anything to do with women's right, they need their head examined.

Now if you don't mind, I have better things to do that argue with idiots who don't give a fuck about women.
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10-06-2014, 05:47 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:45 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:38 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  It's a bullshit argument, not because people shouldn't take responsibility for their own safety but because there is no single other crime in which so much onus is put on the victim, but only of course when they're a woman. It's victim blaming wrapped up in a smothering cloth of concern.

Well actually it's the feminists who pretend to be concerned for women's wellbeing. They don't want women to be taught to be careful or to learn to protect themselves. If women were to follow the advice of feminists (i.e. hey, do whatever, who cares, it's not your fault if you get raped), there would be more rapes. By contrast, following common sense advice like watch where you go at night and maybe learn a bit of self defence, the result is less rapes. Read that again : Feminists advice = more rapes. Common sense advice = less rapes.

Now tell me who is pretending to be concerned. Me, for promoting common sense advice, or feminists, for not giving a flying fuck about the very people that they claim to represent?

It's quite astonishing that this forum is full of people who consciously and knowingly turn a blind eye to the utter irresponsibility of feminists. Feminists do not represent women at all. They have their own agenda and they are motivated by money. If anyone here still believes that feminism has anything to do with women's right, they need their head examined.

Now if you don't mind, I have better things to do that argue with idiots who don't give a fuck about women.

Once again, sweeping statements about women and feminists alongside victim blaming dressed up as faux concern, all while assuming things about other people that allow you to put them down and ridicule their argument (which you completely misrepresent).
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10-06-2014, 06:14 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
Well if a convicted felon is prohibited from owning a firearm, and ammunition, then... Consider

Can a man survive, and safely urinate, without his twig and berries? Evil_monster

It's just a question, dayum Rolleyes

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10-06-2014, 06:23 PM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:32 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:23 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  False dichotomy.

That's no different to saying that anyone who has their house broken into is at fault for not securing it properly.

Fact is that sometimes the precautions you take are not enough. It's also easy to look back in hindsight and think, yeah I should have stayed in that night.

You seem awfully keen to put the blame on the women Kavos. Next you'll be saying that the men can't help themselves. Sounds like you're trying to justify something to yourself.

You seem to have no regard for women's safety. You would rather see them get raped than be able to take care of themselves. And all because it's not their fault. It's not their fault but if you don't take measures to protect yourself or at least watch what you do and where you go, then you're a fool.

Oh fer gawd sakes! Sounds to me like Mathilda has absolute regard for women's safety! The ultimate fix is not arming every woman. The ultimate fix is ridding ourselves of the multitudes of permissions and encouragements for rape. Many women do take protective measures. We are saying that it sucks that we have to.
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11-06-2014, 12:24 AM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 01:03 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Lets play a numbers game then.

Statistically speaking, somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 6 woman will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health....html?_r=0

Quote:A 1997 report by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, which defines rape as forced penetration by the offender,[205] found that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and that nearly 99% of rapists are male.

Quote:According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics, woman are rapted by their current or former intimate partner 26%, another relative 7%, friend or acquaintance 38%, and stranger 26%.

It is estimated that more than half of all rapes are never reported to the police, and the US Bureau basis its statistics on reported rapes. Many more women who are raped by someone they know don't report it because of shame and social stigma. The numbers are probably much more skewed towards friends and acquaintances and former or current intimate partners than even this data shows. The lesson to be learned here; most women are raped by someone they know and often a person they trust.

What percentage of men commit rape? Its hard to say. I have read numbers as high as 1 in 8. The famous 1987 study that found 1/4 college woman will be raped in their lifetime also found that 4.5% of college men self reported that they had forced a woman to have sex with them at least once. One thing is very clear, if 1/5 woman are being raped in their lifetime, it is not possible for only a small percentage of men to be responsible for all these rapes.

Self defense here is NOT a solution to this problem. These women know their attackers, the issue isn't that they are unable to roundhouse kick them to the balls, the issue is that they trust their attacker. They are socially, emotionally, and psychologically dominated while the attack is taking place. Very often it has nothing to do with strength. Woman should be educated when it comes to rape, but not in self defense but in ways to spot rape before it happens and techniques for how protect themselves and how to get out of it.

I understand as a man reading this you feel like you are being blamed for the problem. If you personally never raped anyone, then guess what you're not a rapist. Nobody is calling you a rapist. The data shows though, MEN ARE THE PROBLEM. To pretend otherwise is to wantonly ignore the facts. If you are curious who rapists are then think about the all the men you know right now. Chances are at least a few of them are rapists. Statistically speaking, there might be a dozen rapist on this forum. Rapist are men you know, rape victims are women we know, lets stop pretending the problem is shady folks in back alleys and battered woman on the lifetime channel. Its real people, everywhere, all the time.

Michael_T, this is excellent information, and the stats are on target.

This is what I know of the women I am acquainted with:

I have three sisters; two have been raped--1 in the military.

1/3 of my current female friends have been raped.

Both my daughters have been raped.

Only one of these rapes was reported and went to trial: perp. was convicted of 6 counts aggravated sexual assault: received $5,000 fine and 10 years probation--tragic.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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11-06-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: Teach men not to rape!
(10-06-2014 05:45 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Well actually it's the feminists who pretend to be concerned for women's wellbeing. They don't want women to be taught to be careful or to learn to protect themselves. If women were to follow the advice of feminists (i.e. hey, do whatever, who cares, it's not your fault if you get raped), there would be more rapes. By contrast, following common sense advice like watch where you go at night and maybe learn a bit of self defence, the result is less rapes. Read that again : Feminists advice = more rapes. Common sense advice = less rapes.
[snip]

It's quite astonishing that this forum is full of people who consciously and knowingly turn a blind eye to the utter irresponsibility of feminists. Feminists do not represent women at all. They have their own agenda and they are motivated by money. If anyone here still believes that feminism has anything to do with women's right, they need their head examined.

I am feminist. I am an advocate for women: equality, freedom, women's right to chose, domestic violence, rape support, support of women's sexuality--free of name calling . . ..

And, how many feminists (men and women) are getting paid for bearing the name feminist? I don't get paid for it and neither do any, men and women, of the feminists I know get paid for claiming themselves feminist. WTF! I would say a few get paid for producing literature, theory but only a few compared to the rest of us. And what is wrong with that?

You can say radical feminists, but I don't really know what that means.

"Watch where you go at night." Now there is an interesting statement. This notion has been used to control women for thousands of years, kept them bound and culpable.
Does this mean a prostitute cannot be raped?

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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