Teleportation
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18-10-2013, 02:39 AM
RE: Teleportation
You've seen something in a movie or Tv program recently..
I distinctly remember hearing the very same question somewhere but can't think where.

As for the answer, fucked if I know.

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18-10-2013, 02:52 AM
RE: Teleportation
(17-10-2013 10:25 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 08:43 PM)amyb Wrote:  I'm be afraid of turning into Brundlefly.

No, but I think if it worked perfectly, it would just be taking apart the building blocks of a person, moving them, and reassembling. And if it truly reassembled, then why not consider the end product the same as the beginning person? In Star Trek, they're only "destroyed" in the sense of being broken down, it's still them.

How will those building blocks get transported in the first place? Through the air? How could you make sure they don't get mixed up or float off somewhere or run into something.

The question here isn't about the mechanism though. In the OP, the mechanism was based on the Star Trek teleportation system, which works perfectly in that fictional universe. The question posed was essentially, "who is the person that comes out the other end?" assuming we had the same mechanism.

Personally, as I said, I think you're still the same person, and not a "copy" of yourself.
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18-10-2013, 03:22 AM
RE: Teleportation
i think the question is: would it be the very same consciousness that came out the other side?
perhaps are the star trek characters actually new consciousnesses each time they teleport?

i'd say i would rather travel physically instead, the egoistical bastard i am.Drinking Beverage
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18-10-2013, 06:55 AM
RE: Teleportation
Trek-style is, indeed, not a copy. It's reconstituting the same particles (precisely to get around the non-issue you raise).

To begin you must define you. How else can you say whether something is or isn't you?

Having a definition, one can ask what essential qualities have been changed, added, or removed in the process. 'Copy' to me implies the process can be repeated multiple times; loss of uniqueness seems like the only one to me that would be significant (and there was that episode with Riker's duplicate).

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18-10-2013, 07:06 AM
RE: Teleportation
(18-10-2013 06:55 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Trek-style is, indeed, not a copy. It's reconstituting the same particles (precisely to get around the non-issue you raise).

To begin you must define you. How else can you say whether something is or isn't you?

Having a definition, one can ask what essential qualities have been changed, added, or removed in the process. 'Copy' to me implies the process can be repeated multiple times; loss of uniqueness seems like the only one to me that would be significant (and there was that episode with Riker's duplicate).

i'd say it may be the very same atoms, in the very same spot, but the consciousness may be another. imagine you fall asleep never to awaken again. in your place is someone else, with exactly the same atoms, i exactly the same places, with exactly the same brain, etc. but it's not you. you were disassembled five sec. beforehand, and just a blank. unless teleportation is absolutely instant, of course.

that would be what i think he is asking.
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19-10-2013, 11:14 AM
RE: Teleportation
I cannot say with absolute certainty that this person, who is seemingly exact to myself, would actually be me.

However, I do feel that if all neural connections remained the same, that you would also remember the moment of transportation (maybe not the transportation itself).

Thusly, it wouldn't bother my conscience one bit to think that I am not me, just a cut and paste copy, because I share every memory of the person before (who I also knew).

I don't understand why it would bother anyone, for if the memories are the same, so is the person.
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20-10-2013, 01:16 AM
RE: Teleportation
(17-10-2013 06:30 PM)bemore Wrote:  Do you think it would still be "you" that comes out at the other end. Whilst it may be a flawless copy that comes out at the destination, the original "you" that first stepped into the machine would be destroyed/removed in the process.

Would you die, yet a copy of you remains in the universe?

Good question and it actually is relevant to the philosophy of religion more than you probably think. The very same problem occurs in the doctrines of bodily resurrection that appear in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, i.e. is it the same person or an exact copy that is resurrected?

Van Inwagen argued in a seminal paper The Possibility of Resurrection that the resurrected body--even if it is an exact copy--is not the same person. This is one of van Inwagen's examples:

-"Is that the house of blocks your daughter built this morning?"
-"No, I built this one after I accidentally knocked hers down. I put all the blocks just where she did, though. Don't tell her." (p.118)

The point is that even though the house is true to the daughters design--brick-by-brick--it is in fact not the house that the daughter built, it is the house the father built. (Van Inwagen gives other reasons against what he terms "Aristotelian" resurrection, e.g. if God re-used the original atoms that composed a person at the time of their death then He would be thwarted by the lifelong cannibal, but these aren't relevant to teleportation.)

Similarly, the resurrected body--even if God rebuilds it using the same atoms--is not the original body that was created as a result of conception, cell differentiation, cell growth, cell multiplication, nutrition, metabolism, aging etc. it is instead an exact replica made my God. That one body is made by life/nature and the other is made by God establishes them as having separate identites.

This applies just as well to the case of teleportation, just replace God with "destination side of teleporter". Since the teleportation machine is not rebuilding a body using the original atoms as a God would and it is creating a replica then van Inwagen would surely say that the body on the destination side of the teleporter is not the original body. The teleported body lacks the original atoms and it lacks the historical life processes which created the original body.

According to van Inwagen, if God will resurrect the dead rather than make exact replicas then, "Perhaps at the moment of each man's death, God removes his corpse and replaces it with a simulacrum which is what is burned or rots. Or perhaps God is not quite so wholesale as this: perhaps He removes for "safekeeping" only the "core person" - the brain and central nervous system - or even some special part of it. These are details." (p.121)

But with regard to teleportation does it matter? For all practical purposes you will be the same person even though you are an engineered replica.
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20-10-2013, 04:10 AM
RE: Teleportation
(20-10-2013 01:16 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Similarly, the resurrected body--even if God rebuilds it using the same atoms--is not the original body that was created as a result of conception, cell differentiation, cell growth, cell multiplication, nutrition, metabolism, aging etc. it is instead an exact replica made my God. That one body is made by life/nature and the other is made by God establishes them as having separate identites.

In a lot of religions the identity is distinguished by the soul or spirit.....not the body. In these religions resurrections requires reconstruction of the body and then infusing the original soul or spirit into it.
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