Tell Me If I'm Wrong
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06-05-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 08:33 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:29 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Can someone explain to a foreigner such as me what the purpose is of making pupils at school recite the pledge of allegiance on a regular basis?

In a nutshell, it's supposed to increase and maintain a feeling of patriotism. It was implemented at a time when patriotism seemed low and has been continued ever since.

Here's more information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

so if i get it right,you guys have an anthem AND a pledge? You have to sing both each day? Laughat you cos i don't have to

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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06-05-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 08:44 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:33 AM)Impulse Wrote:  In a nutshell, it's supposed to increase and maintain a feeling of patriotism. It was implemented at a time when patriotism seemed low and has been continued ever since.

Here's more information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

so if i get it right,you guys have an anthem AND a pledge? You have to sing both each day? Laughat you cos i don't have to

No, it was just the pledge every morning in school. The anthem is usually only sung at sporting events. (at least that's the only time I've heard it)

Either way, it's still an indoctrination method to keep us loyal to the government and convince millions of Americans of their own superiority.

Yes, Mathilda, it does have some to do with the patriotic nature of American culture. It's certainly not the only contributing factor, but it is designed for indoctrination.

The irony is, as EK pointed out, our founding fathers would be appalled that children are forced to pledge allegiance to the federal government.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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06-05-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 08:54 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  The irony is, as EK pointed out, our founding fathers would be appalled that children are forced to pledge allegiance to the federal government.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thomas Jefferson

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06-05-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(05-05-2014 07:24 PM)Shameless Wrote:  Well I was tasked with saying the Pledge of Allegiance in my school over the intercom. I said the original pledge (the one before it was changed to counter Russians). I said the pledge w/o the words Under God in it. People said I was being offensive. I don't believe so. Do you think I did the right thing?
It's been pointed out already, but "the right thing" is such a subjective notion...

In my mind, the right thing to do might have been grabbing that microphone and welcoming a new morning in your very own words. However, that might not have been the most convenient course of action, so I don't really recommend it unless one is willing to face the consequences. Sadly as it may seem, many people don't like their pledges of allegiance being tampered with.

Pledges of allegiance date from a primitive time when some human beings viewed humanity in terms of allies and enemies; if you weren't an ally, you were an enemy. Oh, yeah, still today many human beings view humanity in terms of allies and enemies; we still today live in a primitive time. But the thing is that a pledge of allegiance is a sort of sworn declaration of loyalty towards a flag and, more importantly, towards the human representatives of the notion conveyed by the flag. It is a compromise that the pledger will behave as the leader of the nation commands him or her to behave.

Patriotism and religion combine together well because both are similar tools used by the same kind of people to achieve the same outcome. Religious leaders claim to speak on behalf of their gods (artificial abstract entities) so that people around them will behave as the leaders find most convenient. National leaders claim to speak on behalf of their nations (artificial abstract entities) so that people around them will behave as the leaders find most convenient. God's representatives ask us to be faithful; the nation's representatives ask us to be loyal, which is another way of saying faithful. God's representatives always need more money, and the nation's representatives always need more money. God's representatives sometimes urge us to fight those who believe in other gods; the nation's representatives sometimes urge us to fight those who pledge allegiance to other nations... it's the same shit with a different stink.

Sometimes I wish I'd been born a thousand years from now. Then again, who knows if there will be human beings a thousand years from now?
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06-05-2014, 11:19 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
Oh are we talking about the American pledge of allegiance?

I'll just leave my standard American pledge of allegiance picture that sums up my opinion on the subject right here.

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06-05-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 11:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Oh are we talking about the American pledge of allegiance?

I'll just leave my standard American pledge of allegiance picture that sums up my opinion on the subject right here.

The wikipedia link posted earlier had this picture

[Image: Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_Amer...salute.jpg]

It's called the Bellamy salute. I never knew about that. No wonder it was replaced.
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06-05-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(05-05-2014 07:24 PM)Shameless Wrote:  Well I was tasked with saying the Pledge of Allegiance in my school over the intercom. I said the original pledge (the one before it was changed to counter Russians). I said the pledge w/o the words Under God in it. People said I was being offensive. I don't believe so. Do you think I did the right thing?

Can you better describe the situation - does the school do this regularly?
If you were the first to do the Pledge without the reverence to god they were probably trying to draw you out of the closet. They probably want to find out if you have anything to offer, as far as knowledge about reality that they are oblivious to.

How did the conversation go that placed you in the position of defending your recital of the Pledge?

Did you have a well reasoned explanation, or were you defensive, because you really didn't have any experience discussing the matter???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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06-05-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 08:31 AM)natachan Wrote:  It's a ritual. They also believe in some areas that the idea of patriotism and citizenship are served by saying the pledge of allegiance.

Yeah, because the fucking government is perpetually corrupt!!! You're damn straight - do you have a solution, or do you believe that the Constitution is a perfect political charter, and believe that perfect things are easily exploited by devious people who know how to manipulate the system with religion?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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06-05-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 12:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:31 AM)natachan Wrote:  It's a ritual. They also believe in some areas that the idea of patriotism and citizenship are served by saying the pledge of allegiance.

Yeah, because the fucking government is perpetually corrupt!!! You're damn straight - do you have a solution, or do you believe that the Constitution is a perfect political charter, and believe that perfect things are easily exploited by devious people who know how to manipulate the system with religion?

Personally I believe we live in an oligarchy where money is the main driving force behind policy. I believe that as such this is no longer a functioning republic and I act accordingly and refuse to help them perpetuate the charade by voting for candidates who ae corrupt and buy their way into office.

as to my beliefs on the constitution it is the best document available and I respect it.
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06-05-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: Tell Me If I'm Wrong
(06-05-2014 12:05 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 12:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Yeah, because the fucking government is perpetually corrupt!!! You're damn straight - do you have a solution, or do you believe that the Constitution is a perfect political charter, and believe that perfect things are easily exploited by devious people who know how to manipulate the system with religion?

Personally I believe we live in an oligarchy where money is the main driving force behind policy. I believe that as such this is no longer a functioning republic and I act accordingly and refuse to help them perpetuate the charade by voting for candidates who ae corrupt and buy their way into office.

as to my beliefs on the constitution it is the best document available and I respect it.

Help to get money out of politics by supporting a new Amendment to the Constitution to do just that, because Congress and the Supreme Court have failed us.

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