Tenants and Firearms
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14-08-2013, 10:55 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(14-08-2013 10:11 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  http://www.listofmicronations.com/listphysical.html
http://listverse.com/2010/02/22/top-10-b...ronations/
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-pla...c=y&page=2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronations

Free speech can be restricted...Look at WBC with their protests of military funerals (Gasp, thats two rights violated, assembly and speech) and how they are banned being within a certain distance of a funeral. And that was done by the President at the federal level!

Nobody has said "you can't own a firearm", what we are saying is "a landlord may evict you, as long as it doesn't violate state law, by Possessing a firearm on the property if clearly stated in the lease agreement that they are prohibited".

On micronations, feel free to try and assert your sovereignty and see if anyone cares. As Chas points out, reservations for native Americans are a completely different thing and are based on treaties signed by the US government.

Yes, two parties can agree by contract to restrict speech (such as in non-disclosure agreements signed in legal settlements). But agreements by contract to restrict speech can't be 'overbroad' or they risk being unconstitutional regardless of whether both parties signed the contract willingly. No 'right' is ever completely absolute because invariably it conflicts with some other rights. The right to contract and property rights aren't absolute either.

Though I think federal courts may decide to defer to property rights, it may be possible to demonstrate that some communities have de facto gun bans on renters due to widespead banning of weapons. In the community I live in, banning weapons by lease agreement is pretty standard practice. Does it rise to the level of a de facto ban? It might considering that pretty much all big property management companies do ban them. It might be hard to prove de facto bans exist in some communities, but if it were proven, I think it's likely the courts would side with gun rights over property rights.
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15-08-2013, 02:53 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
"Yes, two parties can agree by contract to restrict speech"

If they can do it to the first amendment, why not the second? seems like a "lets pick what we want to enforce" kind of attitude. IMO if you are going to claim injustice on one amendment, do it for all.

Again, Nobody is saying "you can't own a firearm" (which is unconstitutional), rather they are saying "you cannot possess a firearm on the property" (which is legal in MOST states).

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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15-08-2013, 07:35 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(15-08-2013 02:53 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  "Yes, two parties can agree by contract to restrict speech"

If they can do it to the first amendment, why not the second? seems like a "lets pick what we want to enforce" kind of attitude. IMO if you are going to claim injustice on one amendment, do it for all.

Again, Nobody is saying "you can't own a firearm" (which is unconstitutional), rather they are saying "you cannot possess a firearm on the property" (which is legal in MOST states).

Here is the OP:
(07-08-2013 08:49 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Question: Can a landlord state in a lease that firearms are prohibited items on their property and said tenant is subject to eviction if they are discovered to be stored there?

My first thought is yes, this is legal to do, but there may be clauses in the tenant/landlord laws for a particular state or jurisdiction that prohibit this. Does anyone know?

I answered that question: it depends on the jurisdiction.

What the fuck are you arguing about?

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15-08-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(15-08-2013 02:53 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  Again, Nobody is saying "you can't own a firearm" (which is unconstitutional), rather they are saying "you cannot possess a firearm on the property" (which is legal in MOST states).

Yes.

But it is up to the courts to decide whether restriction of ownership on rented property is sufficiently restrictive of ownership in general as to be disallowed.

So I guess that settles that.

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15-08-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
The Constitution is something that actually exists. You can look it up, download it, read it, quote it, make arguments based on it, etc.

What I just read seemed like a lot of baseless (maybe based on faith) assertions and begging the question.

From what I've seen, it didn't even look like any reasonable arguments were made. I'll read again, but I think that was just a conversation where the Constitution was an issue and no one thought it would be a good idea to actually quote and reference the Constitution to make and support an argument.

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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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