Tenants and Firearms
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09-08-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(09-08-2013 12:54 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 12:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, no. The argument for tenants' rights would be even stronger at a federal level.

I disagree there.

On what basis?

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09-08-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(09-08-2013 12:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  I think Logica is arguing for taking out of the states' hands; in which case, only federal law and federal courts have jurisdiction. The Second Amendment is in play.

I have already explained why the second amendment does not apply to the landlord.

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09-08-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(09-08-2013 12:57 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 12:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  I think Logica is arguing for taking out of the states' hands; in which case, only federal law and federal courts have jurisdiction. The Second Amendment is in play.

I have already explained why the second amendment does not apply to the landlord.

The Second Amendment applies to the tenant.

The landlord's opinions can't trump the tenant's rights.

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09-08-2013, 01:02 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(09-08-2013 12:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Second Amendment applies to the tenant.

The landlord's opinions can't trump the tenant's rights.

It is a private lease meaning that the tenant agrees with the landlord's conditions, Chas. It is a private business. The second amendment limits the federal government's jurisdiction.

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09-08-2013, 01:10 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(09-08-2013 01:02 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 12:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Second Amendment applies to the tenant.

The landlord's opinions can't trump the tenant's rights.

It is a private lease meaning that the tenant agrees with the landlord's conditions, Chas. It is a private business. The second amendment limits the federal government's jurisdiction.

No, the Bill of Rights guarantees freedoms and rights to individuals. SCOTUS has ruled on this, it is res judicata.

The contract between landlord and tenant is a commercial one. There are already jurisdictions that have ruled that the individuals rights are more important than the landlord's wishes; there will be more such.

What the landlord can do in his own home is not the same as what he can do in his rental properties.


You are starting to sound eerily like elegant_atheist.

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13-08-2013, 01:11 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
"What the landlord can do in his own home is not the same as what he can do in his rental properties."

I agree, in his own home he can own a firearm without worrying about breaking his lease agreement. However, in a rental property, as long as it doesn't violate your state law, you CAN be evicted if you break the lease agreement. Lease agreements or rental agreements are PRIVATE and hold no bearing towards rights and discrimination, if you sign on the line abide by the rules. In fair housing laws, gun owners are not protected citizens and cannot claim discrimination.

You are correct in saying that SOME jurisdictions have outlawed prohibiting firearms, but many others have upheld the Fair Housing laws and allow the prohibition to stand. You keep saying what "is" and what "ought"...You have it backwards friend. It IS legal to prohibt firearms in a rental agreement as long as you do not break your state law.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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13-08-2013, 01:13 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
Also, Most Home Owners associations ban firearms in their communities. this is also 100% legal, but they can't evict you, the worst they can do is fine you....but thats a whole different arguement.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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13-08-2013, 07:26 AM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(13-08-2013 01:13 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  Also, Most Home Owners associations ban firearms in their communities. this is also 100% legal, but they can't evict you, the worst they can do is fine you....but thats a whole different arguement.

No, this is not legal everywhere.

My point is, and has been, that you can't make a blanket statement about tenant/landlord rights because it varies by jurisdiction.

Those of you who make blanket statements about these rights are in the wrong.

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13-08-2013, 09:26 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
Chas, from what I have researched only 3 states so far have made laws that protect gun owners...when the odds are 47 to 3 our statements can be used as a generalization. The 3 states are an exception to the rule.

It would be the equivalency of saying that 47 christians believe in creationism as opposed to the 3 that believe in evolution...and then saying "christians believe in creationism". There are accepted exceptions to the rule, but the general statement (while not encompassing EVERY christian, hence "general"), is still true.

Nobody has said EVERY state allows prohibition of firearms for landlords, but the statemet of "you COULD be evicted, and your landlord MAY prohibit firearms as long as it doesn't break state law", is very very true.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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13-08-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: Tenants and Firearms
(09-08-2013 01:02 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 12:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Second Amendment applies to the tenant.

The landlord's opinions can't trump the tenant's rights.

It is a private lease meaning that the tenant agrees with the landlord's conditions, Chas. It is a private business. The second amendment limits the federal government's jurisdiction.

Chas is probably more in the right here. You are arguing for property rights being more important to the exclusion of any other rights. This kind of argument was the same argument people used to justify not doing business with minorities. Property rights matter, but they are weighed against other rights in the constitution.

If I run an internet company or a phone company, can I make a rule saying that no disparaging or critical speech about Republicans can be made using my service? I mean, it's my service--don't I have the right to spell out the terms by which people can use my service? What if I'm the only service provider in the area or if all the options for service contain similar provisions?

Whether restricting gun ownership for renters rises to the level of a violation of 2nd amendment rights probably would also depend on the facts. If there are plenty of options for renting housing that doesn't restrict gun ownership, it might be hard to get the courts to pay attention to the issue.
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