Terminal lucidity
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02-02-2013, 02:56 PM
Terminal lucidity
Hi

I was talking with a friend and he told me about this thing called Terminal lucidity. Its about this:

In a previous report we described the unexpected return of
mental clarity and memory shortly before the death of patients
suffering from severe mental disorders (Nahm and Greyson, 2009).
This return of mental clarity often occurs in the last minutes, hours,
or days before the patient’s death. Observations of this phenomenon
have so far not received much attention among psychiatrists
and other physicians. We referred to this unexpected symptom
remission at the end of life as ‘‘terminal lucidity’’. In our previous
report we presented the results of a literature survey of published
case reports of terminal lucidity during the last 250 years, and
included case reports of terminally ill patients suffering from
Alzheimer’s disease and from chronic schizophrenia. By drawing
attention to terminal lucidity, we hope to stimulate future research
into the psychopathology and neuropathology of mentally ill
patients who suffer from an additional somatic disease. Such
studies could facilitate the development of new therapies, and
could contribute to an enhanced understanding of the factors
governing the interplay between body and mind, as well as
cognition and memory processing.

Study here from which a took this:

http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinic ... ty-AGG.pdf

I am skeptical about this but the believers have already jumped the gun that this is evidence of the afterlife like here:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... -mind.html

and here:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... idity.html

I am skeptical here because according to the pdf. They have found only this so far:

At present, we have identified 83 cases of terminal lucidity
mentioned in the literature of the last 250 years and have collected
comparable unpublished contemporary accounts.

Therefore I am asking if someone of you could explain this phenomena and if you know some research about this that is based on materialism or something similar in the sense why people in dementia have sometimes moments of remembering something I would be very grateful because I heard that people in dementia and Alzheimer have sometimes moments when they remember something like the quoted in the pdf above:

The third Alzheimer’s case involved an 81-year-old woman who
had been demented for a long time and was living in a retirement
home in Iceland. Her family took turns visiting her, even though
she had neither recognized any of them nor spoken to them for a
year. On one occasion, her son Lydur was sitting at her bedside
working on a crossword puzzle. Suddenly she sat up, looked him
directly in the face, and said, ‘‘My Lydur, I am going to recite a verse
to you’’. She then recited clearly and loudly the following verse,
thought by her son to be quite relevant to her situation (translated
into unrhymed English by E.H.):
Oh, father of light, be adored.
Life and health you gave to me,
My father and my mother.
Now I sit up, for the sun is shining.
You send your light in to me.
Oh, God, how good you are.
She then lay back on her pillow and was again nonresponsive,
and remained so until she died about a month later. Her son
immediately wrote down the verse, thinking it was his mother’s
poetry; but he later learned it was the first stanza from a psalm by
an Icelandic poet.


So my question is how can this be explained normally without some soul or things like that? Thanks for reading this and your time.
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02-02-2013, 04:00 PM
RE: Terminal lucidity
(02-02-2013 02:56 PM)Lukas1986 Wrote:  Hi

I was talking with a friend and he told me about this thing called Terminal lucidity. Its about this:

In a previous report we described the unexpected return of
mental clarity and memory shortly before the death of patients
suffering from severe mental disorders (Nahm and Greyson, 2009).
This return of mental clarity often occurs in the last minutes, hours,
or days before the patient’s death. Observations of this phenomenon
have so far not received much attention among psychiatrists
and other physicians. We referred to this unexpected symptom
remission at the end of life as ‘‘terminal lucidity’’. In our previous
report we presented the results of a literature survey of published
case reports of terminal lucidity during the last 250 years, and
included case reports of terminally ill patients suffering from
Alzheimer’s disease and from chronic schizophrenia. By drawing
attention to terminal lucidity, we hope to stimulate future research
into the psychopathology and neuropathology of mentally ill
patients who suffer from an additional somatic disease. Such
studies could facilitate the development of new therapies, and
could contribute to an enhanced understanding of the factors
governing the interplay between body and mind, as well as
cognition and memory processing.

Study here from which a took this:

http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinic ... ty-AGG.pdf

I am skeptical about this but the believers have already jumped the gun that this is evidence of the afterlife like here:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... -mind.html

and here:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... idity.html

I am skeptical here because according to the pdf. They have found only this so far:

At present, we have identified 83 cases of terminal lucidity
mentioned in the literature of the last 250 years and have collected
comparable unpublished contemporary accounts.

Therefore I am asking if someone of you could explain this phenomena and if you know some research about this that is based on materialism or something similar in the sense why people in dementia have sometimes moments of remembering something I would be very grateful because I heard that people in dementia and Alzheimer have sometimes moments when they remember something like the quoted in the pdf above:

The third Alzheimer’s case involved an 81-year-old woman who
had been demented for a long time and was living in a retirement
home in Iceland. Her family took turns visiting her, even though
she had neither recognized any of them nor spoken to them for a
year. On one occasion, her son Lydur was sitting at her bedside
working on a crossword puzzle. Suddenly she sat up, looked him
directly in the face, and said, ‘‘My Lydur, I am going to recite a verse
to you’’. She then recited clearly and loudly the following verse,
thought by her son to be quite relevant to her situation (translated
into unrhymed English by E.H.):
Oh, father of light, be adored.
Life and health you gave to me,
My father and my mother.
Now I sit up, for the sun is shining.
You send your light in to me.
Oh, God, how good you are.
She then lay back on her pillow and was again nonresponsive,
and remained so until she died about a month later. Her son
immediately wrote down the verse, thinking it was his mother’s
poetry; but he later learned it was the first stanza from a psalm by
an Icelandic poet.


So my question is how can this be explained normally without some soul or things like that? Thanks for reading this and your time.
That's a hard and long question.

Science involves the best of our accrued mental investigations of things.
What we know must be limited within this essential scope;must it not?
I see issues transcending this as possibilities.
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02-02-2013, 05:02 PM
RE: Terminal lucidity
(02-02-2013 02:56 PM)Lukas1986 Wrote:  Hi

I was talking with a friend and he told me about this thing called Terminal lucidity. Its about this:

In a previous report we described the unexpected return of
mental clarity and memory shortly before the death of patients
suffering from severe mental disorders (Nahm and Greyson, 2009).
This return of mental clarity often occurs in the last minutes, hours,
or days before the patient’s death. Observations of this phenomenon
have so far not received much attention among psychiatrists
and other physicians. We referred to this unexpected symptom
remission at the end of life as ‘‘terminal lucidity’’. In our previous
report we presented the results of a literature survey of published
case reports of terminal lucidity during the last 250 years, and
included case reports of terminally ill patients suffering from
Alzheimer’s disease and from chronic schizophrenia. By drawing
attention to terminal lucidity, we hope to stimulate future research
into the psychopathology and neuropathology of mentally ill
patients who suffer from an additional somatic disease. Such
studies could facilitate the development of new therapies, and
could contribute to an enhanced understanding of the factors
governing the interplay between body and mind, as well as
cognition and memory processing.

Study here from which a took this:

http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinic ... ty-AGG.pdf

I am skeptical about this but the believers have already jumped the gun that this is evidence of the afterlife like here:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... -mind.html

and here:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... idity.html

I am skeptical here because according to the pdf. They have found only this so far:

At present, we have identified 83 cases of terminal lucidity
mentioned in the literature of the last 250 years and have collected
comparable unpublished contemporary accounts.

Therefore I am asking if someone of you could explain this phenomena and if you know some research about this that is based on materialism or something similar in the sense why people in dementia have sometimes moments of remembering something I would be very grateful because I heard that people in dementia and Alzheimer have sometimes moments when they remember something like the quoted in the pdf above:

The third Alzheimer’s case involved an 81-year-old woman who
had been demented for a long time and was living in a retirement
home in Iceland. Her family took turns visiting her, even though
she had neither recognized any of them nor spoken to them for a
year. On one occasion, her son Lydur was sitting at her bedside
working on a crossword puzzle. Suddenly she sat up, looked him
directly in the face, and said, ‘‘My Lydur, I am going to recite a verse
to you’’. She then recited clearly and loudly the following verse,
thought by her son to be quite relevant to her situation (translated
into unrhymed English by E.H.):
Oh, father of light, be adored.
Life and health you gave to me,
My father and my mother.
Now I sit up, for the sun is shining.
You send your light in to me.
Oh, God, how good you are.
She then lay back on her pillow and was again nonresponsive,
and remained so until she died about a month later. Her son
immediately wrote down the verse, thinking it was his mother’s
poetry; but he later learned it was the first stanza from a psalm by
an Icelandic poet.


So my question is how can this be explained normally without some soul or things like that? Thanks for reading this and your time.


I don't see how so-called 'terminal lucidity' is any different than episodic lucidity. People suffering dementia occasionally act or are lucid - it is not understood why.

The only difference I see here is a selection bias by looking only at cases that happen near the time of death.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2013, 07:35 PM
RE: Terminal lucidity
I've witnessed this several times having worked with dementia patients.

They suffer a terrible disease and continue to decline then suddenly they seem "better" for a little tiny while, hours or days even sometimes. Appearing to improve noticeably.

I always felt bad because families get very excited about this but as staff you know that means that their loved one are on the way out. (Obviously you don't want to share this information)

I have no idea why this happens. My totally unsupported opinion would be that there is a surge of chemical and Neurol *sp* activity before the brain begins to die, that perhaps it gives the brain an extra "oomph" to work correctly before it stops. *shrug*
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03-02-2013, 12:19 PM
RE: Terminal lucidity
I would like to thanks you for clearing this to me. Thanks to you all.
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