Terms for debates
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22-08-2015, 09:01 AM
Terms for debates
I have started a vocabulary list for the purposes of, my own knowledge, & engaging theists in more thoughtful, & honest discussions. The most obvious way I can think to help myself avoid murky language is to have as concise an understanding of what a theist may mean, or think my words to mean, as possible. The word "belief," for example, came to mind when I first thought this was a worthwhile project.

I'm currently using dictionary.com, & Merriam-Webster's website (I.word.com) as my definitions resources. I'm using definitions that I find to be the most relevant to what I often hear others say, as well as what comes out of my mouth. I am only a few words into my, still growing, list, & am concerned about engaging, actually or perceptibly, in some form of bias by choosing a select (or select set of) definition(s). Is this concern warranted, or am I just being silly with worry? My other concern is finding, & understanding well enough to use- &/ or challenge misunderstandings of- complex terms definitions. Terms like "The Second Law of Thermodynamics, " &, "Macro Evolution," are much more than terms, & will require rigorous study to properly address this specific concern. I'll be sure to engage this forum for good places to find reliable resources on such topics, should I feel stuck.

For now I'll share my current list of less complicated terms, & am looking for any advice, &/ or criticisms, you all may have on the terms I've selected, haven't gotten to, &/ or may have overlooked. Some of these I already have a grasp on, but thought it to be a good exercise in precision to include them.

Faith
Belief
Hope
Natural
Supernatural
Reality
Exist
Obstinate
Evidence
Theory
Omnipotent
Omniscient
Benevolent
Science
Pseudoscience
Deist
Gnostic
Agnostic
Spirit/ Spirituality
Phenomenon
Miracle
Mind
Consciousness
Religion
Philosophy
Cult
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22-08-2015, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 09:10 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Terms for debates
(22-08-2015 09:01 AM)7R0MM3L Wrote:  I have started a vocabulary list for the purposes of, my own knowledge, & engaging theists in more thoughtful, & honest discussions. The most obvious way I can think to help myself avoid murky language is to have as concise an understanding of what a theist may mean, or think my words to mean, as possible. The word "belief," for example, came to mind when I first thought this was a worthwhile project.

I'm using definitions that I find to be the most relevant to what I often hear others say, as well as what comes out of my mouth. I am only a few words into my, still growing, list, & am concerned about engaging, actually or perceptibly, in some form of bias by choosing a select (or select set of) definition(s). Is this concern warranted, or am I just being silly with worry?

Your concern is absolutely warranted. Different religions view the world in a very different light. You should be able to know that people of different backgrounds may or may not have a concept of original sin, or really care about whether or not the stories in the bible are literal or parable.

(22-08-2015 09:01 AM)7R0MM3L Wrote:  For now I'll share my current list of less complicated terms, & am looking for any advice, &/ or criticisms, you all may have on the terms I've selected, haven't gotten to, &/ or may have overlooked. Some of these I already have a grasp on, but thought it to be a good exercise in precision to include them.

Theists come in many flavors.... Given that you didn't specify one religion over another, it seems that you're considering that you may have discussions with any kind of theist. I can't help you with understanding the Christian view of these words, but here are my two-cents from a Jewish perspective.


Faith - Not important. One needs faith in absolutely nothing, and having faith can be considered to be dangerous. (A little faith in a few topics will be okay, I guess.)

Belief - Same as faith. It's a personal choice to believe something that you can't touch, see or personally confirm, but this is not tantamount to being a productive, practicing Jew. In Judaism, what you do is a lot more important than what you believe.

Hope - We all want to have hope, don't we?

Natural - We live in a natural world, governed by the laws of nature.

Supernatural - Not real. This is a really big topic and more advanced subtopics exist on this matter. But in the sense that I think you're talking about, like ghosts or talking to your deceased relative isn't viewed as being real. It's actually laughed at, and never even privately considered possible.

Reality - Questionable depending on which aspect of Judaism you're studying.

Exist - Same as reality.

Obstinate - This doesn't seem like a religious term.... is it?

Evidence - Evidence in what exactly?

Theory - Theory of what? The theory of evolution? 100% kosher. I have a few things to say about theories and Judaism, all of which are TL/DR. In short, A Jew's personal belief in how the world came to be will not impact anything whatsoever. They are free to believe that the world is very old, or very young, and won't be ostracized, ridiculed or excommunicated. Jews have been contemplating a old universe model for hundreds of years. One Jewish sage (who I think lived about 500 years ago) calculated the age of the universe as being some 13 or 14 billion years old, and also suggested that the universe would die out in another handful of billion years.

Benevolent - This isn't a religious term.... that I'm aware of?

Science -Science is okay! There is no reason to be afraid of it. Go out and science, everyone!

Pseudoscience - Not a Jewish issue.

Miracle - Perfectly timed acts within the laws of nature.

And finally, the rest of your list seem like religious terms, but I don't think Judaism has anything special to say about them.

Omnipotent
Omniscient
Deist
Gnostic
Agnostic
Spirit/ Spirituality
Phenomenon
Mind
Consciousness
Religion
Philosophy
Cult
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22-08-2015, 09:06 PM
RE: Terms for debates
Arguably in any debate we should be actively seeking out words that the two sides disagree on and eliminating them from the discussion. Only we speak with words whose meaning is agreed and understood by both sides can we communicate effectively and resolve differences.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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22-08-2015, 09:25 PM
RE: Terms for debates
OP. You poor naive sod. Do you actually think they have any interest in reading what you have to say? Look at the davidJay idiot. He never read anything, never watched any videos... All he wanted to do was preach to us.

Why do you think I just tell most of them to fuck off?

They are not interested.

Perhaps I am just cynical.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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22-08-2015, 09:45 PM
RE: Terms for debates
(22-08-2015 09:25 PM)Banjo Wrote:  OP. You poor naive sod. Do you actually think they have any interest in reading what you have to say? Look at the davidJay idiot. He never read anything, never watched any videos... All he wanted to do was preach to us.

Why do you think I just tell most of them to fuck off?

They are not interested.

Perhaps I am just cynical.

I disagree, Banjo. If the conversation is never broached, people in dangerous cult-like religions may never leave. Also, if the conversation doesn't happen, wild, stupid ideas are left to flourish unchecked.
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22-08-2015, 09:49 PM
RE: Terms for debates
Well you have to see how the dialogue is working first. If it is going nowhere you are wasting your time. If, and it is a big IF, they do engage and a dialogue is struck up, that is a different matter.

However, most I have seen here are not interested in real debate. They may start off that way and then they get into the jesus said stuff. From that point it is a waste of time.

For example, in the DavidJay thread I posted that he was a waste of time in my first post in one of his threads. I was right.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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23-08-2015, 06:59 AM
RE: Terms for debates
(22-08-2015 09:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  However, most I have seen here are not interested in real debate. They may start off that way and then they get into the jesus said stuff. From that point it is a waste of time.

It isn't for his sake, it's for the people questioning their beliefs who are reading it. They see him making grandiose claims and avoiding any and all requests to back up those claims with even the slightest evidence. They also see that his anti-science arguments are outdated or quote-mined or otherwise easily debunked. If that gets them thinking about why they should believe what they've been told it is valuable.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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23-08-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Terms for debates
I would propose a few more terms for your list:

Ethics
Morals
Sin
Error
Forgiveness
Justice
Judgment
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23-08-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: Terms for debates
Autodidacticism

Maybe that's more relevant for people like me who can't sit through an 8 minute lecture but are still often put into the position of having to back up their statements with an academic background Tongue

'Murican Canadian
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23-08-2015, 08:39 PM
RE: Terms for debates
(23-08-2015 08:44 AM)julep Wrote:  I would propose a few more terms for your list:

Ethics
Morals
Sin
Error
Forgiveness
Justice
Judgment

I had not considered 'justice,' & am curious why 'error' is on the list. Would you care to elaborate on the reason for that specific term? Thank you for your input.
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