Terrorist Attack in Oregon
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27-01-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 05:25 PM)BnW Wrote:  I don't have any facts to answer question 1. I'm not sure.

And, it can rise to sedition when they try to overthrow the government. That's not what they are trying to do.

One definition of sedition is "conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch."

They seem guilty of that. Consider

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27-01-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
I suppose you could make an argument it's sedition. Given the way this is being handled, I can't see a sedition charge being filed. I can't believe these asshole were able to go back and forth into town prior to yesterday. That packages are getting through. That they had power.

I get you didn't want a shoot out but this is the other extreme. I'm not a fan of how this has been handled at all.

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27-01-2016, 06:22 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 06:20 PM)BnW Wrote:  I suppose you could make an argument it's sedition. Given the way this is being handled, I can't see a sedition charge being filed. I can't believe these asshole were able to go back and forth into town prior to yesterday. That packages are getting through. That they had power.

I get you didn't want a shoot out but this is the other extreme. I'm not a fan of how this has been handled at all.

They also stayed in motels and ate at area restaurants and bars.

Facepalm


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27-01-2016, 06:23 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
I did not know that. That is fucking ridiculous.

Not a fan at all.

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27-01-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 06:23 PM)BnW Wrote:  I did not know that. That is fucking ridiculous.

Not a fan at all.

That's what all the local news was saying. Not to mention their daily press conferences, meeting with local ranchers and business -- like they're fucking representatives of something other than their egos.

One or two were arrested for driving one of the refuge trucks to Safeway -- that's what it took they had to steal a fucking truck. They couldn't be arrested for...I don't know...taking over a federal complex????

I'm just as pissed at the state of Oregon.

This is not how a situation like this should be handled.

Don't treat terrorists like fucking faux celebrities.


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27-01-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
They have to take cause and effect into consideration. Nutcases or not, they are not without supporters. It might not seem like it based on the discussions we're having on this thread, or with relatively similar minded people in the real world, but there are a sizeable number of people that are behind what these guys are doing throughout the country. They're trying not to let things escalate, and that means leaving no room for argument among supporters as to who the aggressors are.

I'm not by any means saying they handled this thing properly, only that doing so without provoking backlash is more important than this specific incident in and of itself. And I do find it ironic that many of the people advocating direct violent action are the same ones who would suggest leaving overseas extremists alone because simply killing them might lead to otherwise inactive sympathizers joining their ranks and causing their numbers to swell.

Now I'm not necessarily saying we shouldn't just go in and napalm them, only that the way people perceive this situation is inconsistent with stances they've taken in the past.

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27-01-2016, 08:12 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:08 PM)yakherder Wrote:  They have to take cause and effect into consideration. Nutcases or not, they are not without supporters. It might not seem like it based on the discussions we're having on this thread, or with relatively similar minded people in the real world, but there are a sizeable number of people that are behind what these guys are doing throughout the country. They're trying not to let things escalate, and that means leaving no room for argument among supporters as to who the aggressors are.

I'm not by any means saying they handled this thing properly, only that doing so without provoking backlash is more important than this specific incident in and of itself. And I do find it ironic that many of the people advocating direct violent action are the same ones who would suggest leaving overseas extremists alone because simply killing them might lead to otherwise inactive sympathizers joining their ranks and causing their numbers to swell.

Now I'm not necessarily saying we shouldn't just go in and napalm them, only that the way people perceive this situation is inconsistent with stances they've taken in the past.

The ranchers in that area (ones who would be most affected by their cause) overwhelmingly wanted them to leave.


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27-01-2016, 08:19 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:12 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 08:08 PM)yakherder Wrote:  They have to take cause and effect into consideration. Nutcases or not, they are not without supporters. It might not seem like it based on the discussions we're having on this thread, or with relatively similar minded people in the real world, but there are a sizeable number of people that are behind what these guys are doing throughout the country. They're trying not to let things escalate, and that means leaving no room for argument among supporters as to who the aggressors are.

I'm not by any means saying they handled this thing properly, only that doing so without provoking backlash is more important than this specific incident in and of itself. And I do find it ironic that many of the people advocating direct violent action are the same ones who would suggest leaving overseas extremists alone because simply killing them might lead to otherwise inactive sympathizers joining their ranks and causing their numbers to swell.

Now I'm not necessarily saying we shouldn't just go in and napalm them, only that the way people perceive this situation is inconsistent with stances they've taken in the past.

The ranchers in that area (ones who would be most affected by their cause) overwhelmingly wanted them to leave.

Nutcases elsewhere, who have only their pre-existing ideologies and the media to go off of, are cheering them on and looking for an excuse to join in. I'm following some of these groups, and let's just say the reactions are not promising. Regardless of what actually happened, in the eyes of a lot of people, this guy was lured out and then executed. As ridiculous as that may sound, which it is, it doesn't need to be true to act as a rallying call to the ignorant. Law enforcement is well aware of this.

These guys aren't like the ones in Wacco. They're Christians, and they have support scattered throughout the country.

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27-01-2016, 08:26 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 05:25 PM)BnW Wrote:  I don't have any facts to answer question 1. I'm not sure.

And, it can rise to sedition when they try to overthrow the government. That's not what they are trying to do.

Sedition law, at the federal level, also includes the charge of inciting revolt against the federal government. Given that that was one of their explicitly-stated aims, they might well fall under its rubric, despite their dismal failure.

I doubt the government will try them for it, not for legal reasons, but for practical reasons. Trying them for sedition creates more "martyrs".
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27-01-2016, 08:28 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:08 PM)yakherder Wrote:  They have to take cause and effect into consideration. Nutcases or not, they are not without supporters. It might not seem like it based on the discussions we're having on this thread, or with relatively similar minded people in the real world, but there are a sizeable number of people that are behind what these guys are doing throughout the country. They're trying not to let things escalate, and that means leaving no room for argument among supporters as to who the aggressors are.

I'm not by any means saying they handled this thing properly, only that doing so without provoking backlash is more important than this specific incident in and of itself. And I do find it ironic that many of the people advocating direct violent action are the same ones who would suggest leaving overseas extremists alone because simply killing them might lead to otherwise inactive sympathizers joining their ranks and causing their numbers to swell.

Now I'm not necessarily saying we shouldn't just go in and napalm them, only that the way people perceive this situation is inconsistent with stances they've taken in the past.

The right way to handle this was to to cut power, enforce a strict blockade, and let Officer Winter talk these guys into turning themselves in.

(27-01-2016 06:45 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 06:23 PM)BnW Wrote:  I did not know that. That is fucking ridiculous.

Not a fan at all.

That's what all the local news was saying. Not to mention their daily press conferences, meeting with local ranchers and business -- like they're fucking representatives of something other than their egos.

One or two were arrested for driving one of the refuge trucks to Safeway -- that's what it took they had to steal a fucking truck. They couldn't be arrested for...I don't know...taking over a federal complex????

I'm just as pissed at the state of Oregon.

This is not how a situation like this should be handled.

Don't treat terrorists like fucking faux celebrities.

It's a good thing for them that they were white. Had they been minority, body-bags would have been filled three weeks ago.
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