Terrorist Attack in Oregon
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27-01-2016, 08:31 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:19 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 08:12 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The ranchers in that area (ones who would be most affected by their cause) overwhelmingly wanted them to leave.

Nutcases elsewhere, who have only their pre-existing ideologies and the media to go off of, are cheering them on and looking for an excuse to join in. I'm following some of these groups, and let's just say the reactions are not promising. Regardless of what actually happened, in the eyes of a lot of people, this guy was lured out and then executed. As ridiculous as that may sound, which it is, it doesn't need to be true to act as a rallying call to the ignorant. Law enforcement is well aware of this.

These guys aren't like the ones in Wacco. They're Christians, and they have support scattered throughout the country.

I do agree.

But, this whole thing was mishandled at the start. They should have cut the power to the place, cut off the water, not allowed them to come and go freely....

Definitely not allow them to hold their daily press conferences, attend meetings..

If they left the building they should have been arrested. Period.

And for fucks sake they should NEVER have been able to receive dildos in the mail.

What the actual fuck anyway. Sure it's funny...but they got deliveries.

They pulled down fences and took down cameras...

One or two were arrested for stealing vehicles. That's a joke.

When they showed up to one of those meetings with the local sheriffs. They should have said...'well it's been nice talking with you, but by the way the place is surrounded and you're all under arrest.'

If they had been brown, that's exactly what would have happened.

But again I agree with what you say. (And I'll add) This country is fucked up.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-01-2016, 08:33 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
I do hope they get my map. Sad

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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27-01-2016, 08:33 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:19 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 08:12 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The ranchers in that area (ones who would be most affected by their cause) overwhelmingly wanted them to leave.

Nutcases elsewhere, who have only their pre-existing ideologies and the media to go off of, are cheering them on and looking for an excuse to join in. I'm following some of these groups, and let's just say the reactions are not promising. Regardless of what actually happened, in the eyes of a lot of people, this guy was lured out and then executed. As ridiculous as that may sound, which it is, it doesn't need to be true to act as a rallying call to the ignorant. Law enforcement is well aware of this.

These guys aren't like the ones in Wacco. They're Christians, and they have support scattered throughout the country.

The overwhelming sentiment in the country was they are terrorists and criminals. Also the fact that they were treated with kid gloves seems much more likely to be due to their lily white skin than their supposed support. Had a group of armed Black men took over a federal building in baltimore during the Freddie Gray incident do you believe they would have been handled in such an obscene hands off way?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-01-2016, 08:44 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:33 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 08:19 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Nutcases elsewhere, who have only their pre-existing ideologies and the media to go off of, are cheering them on and looking for an excuse to join in. I'm following some of these groups, and let's just say the reactions are not promising. Regardless of what actually happened, in the eyes of a lot of people, this guy was lured out and then executed. As ridiculous as that may sound, which it is, it doesn't need to be true to act as a rallying call to the ignorant. Law enforcement is well aware of this.

These guys aren't like the ones in Wacco. They're Christians, and they have support scattered throughout the country.

The overwhelming sentiment in the country was they are terrorists and criminals. Also the fact that they were treated with kid gloves seems much more likely to be due to their lily white skin than their supposed support. Had a group of armed Black men took over a federal building in baltimore during the Freddie Gray incident do you believe they would have been handled in such an obscene hands off way?

During the various recent riots they had the National Guard standing back with its thumbs up it's ass while people looted and pillaged at will. I don't deny there is racism in this country, but I don't believe for a second they all would have been massacred if they were brown.

I don't think the criminals on either side of the color spectrum were handled as violently as they should have been.

'Murican Canadian
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27-01-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
Now that I'm on my computer instead of my phone I feel the need to expand on the concept of instinctive racial bias, which is not the same thing as racism.

We take actions based on the decision making process of two distinctively different portions of the brain. The more dominant portion is intuitive, while the less dominant portion is more rational. When we're faced with a problem that the intuitive portion of our brain does not perceive as a threat to our immediate safety, it will allow the rational portion of our brain to apply critical thinking. When a more immediate threat is perceived, however, that thinking part of our brain is basically vetoed while we act instinctively. To illustrate how this works, I'll use myself as an example.

I am not anti Muslim, nor am I anti Arab. The rational part of me knows that these things in and of themselves do not necessarily indicate a dangerous situation. Nonetheless, if I'm casually walking down the street in Montreal and someone comes around the corner that looks similar to the fucker that tried to blow me up with a suicide vest, before I have a chance to apply critical thinking to the situation and rationalize that it's probably just some random non dangerous person on their way to get a haircut or something, I will briefly perceive this person to be a threat. Adrenaline will begin to surge, vision will begin to narrow, all the usual shit. Then the slower to react neocortex will catch up with the situation, I'll remember that I'm back in the real world again, and I'll proceed as normal.

Law enforcement, both black and white, is subject to a similar set of blinders in a country where black people are often perceived as more dangerous even by those who recognize this view as a problem that has more to do with sociology than race. For that reason, I do not have any problem believing that a black person who is not rationally any more threatening than a white person could be perceived as a threat in a spur of the moment encounter, and possibly killed as a result, even by a cop who is not necessarily racist.

The situation in Oregon, like the protests and the riots, is very different because it was not spur of the moment. Rational people not sitting on the front line facing an immediate threat have the opportunity to sit and formulate a plan and relevant rules of engagement based on their desired outcome. And regardless of how an individual who perceives a threat might react in the midst of an unplanned encounter, no organization with even a rudimentary understanding of cause and effect, even if headed by a racist, would have any interest in massacring a bunch of people, brown or otherwise. Doing so would produce only negative consequences. I guarantee everyone directly involved in trying to formulate a resolution to situations like this one, and not presently in the middle of a firefight, wants nothing more than for the situation to go the fuck away so they can go back to earning their paycheck and staying out of the spotlight.

So again, to summarize, no they wouldn't have been all killed sooner just for being black. The idea is ridiculous. In a different time, with a different political climate and knowingly less possible public backlash as a result, sure. But these guys in charge of this situation are not complete bumbling idiots, as much as we'd like to believe it.

'Murican Canadian
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27-01-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 08:08 PM)yakherder Wrote:  And I do find it ironic that many of the people advocating direct violent action are the same ones who would suggest leaving overseas extremists alone because simply killing them might lead to otherwise inactive sympathizers joining their ranks and causing their numbers to swell.

Who advocated direct violent action? Perhaps I missed it but I don't think anyone here has advocated anything like that.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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27-01-2016, 09:41 PM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2016 10:07 PM by yakherder.)
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(27-01-2016 09:36 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 08:08 PM)yakherder Wrote:  And I do find it ironic that many of the people advocating direct violent action are the same ones who would suggest leaving overseas extremists alone because simply killing them might lead to otherwise inactive sympathizers joining their ranks and causing their numbers to swell.

Who advocated direct violent action? Perhaps I missed it but I don't think anyone here has advocated anything like that.

There are three options the way I see it. One is to sit back and pick our noses (this seems to be the option they went with), option two is to take a passive aggressive approach such as cutting off Netflix and their dildo supply and waiting til them get bored, and option three is to attempt to apprehend them. Option three is, by its nature, direct and violent, as it involves forcing someone who is capable of violence themselves to do something they've already stated they don't want to do. Nobody has seriously suggested carpet bombing them like I have, but a number of people have advocated arresting them. To me, this is an inherently violent action, and one that has a high probability of resulting in escalation. Which I'm fine with, just answering the question.

'Murican Canadian
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27-01-2016, 09:52 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
That's a bit of a dodge. You made a statement basically calling people hypocrites over something that no one said. No one has advocating a direct confrontation with guns ablazing so the bit about the irony really doesn't hold up.

It's not a big deal, but I took the comment as being attributed to me and I never said anything like what you're suggesting. I did suggest they shouldn't pussyfoot with these assholes and should cut their power and supplies and put them in a position to give up or starve but that is a far, far cry from a call for needless violence.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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27-01-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
I apologize for my lack of clarity. I'm having trouble keeping up with the debate, and skimming through it I see what I perceive to be a lot of people recommending a more forceful approach than I think they would with similar situations in different contexts.

'Murican Canadian
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27-01-2016, 10:08 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
No harm, no foul. We're good.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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