Terrorist Attack in Oregon
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29-01-2016, 09:49 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(29-01-2016 09:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 08:52 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm personally not a fan of the concept of heeding too much attention to what one deserves, as it tends to have little relevance in regards to what one gets or doesn't get. I prefer to view the world and everything in it simply as cause/effect. As far as I can tell, it sounds like he was a decent, respectable guy. A respectable guy who got caught up in this bullshit and set himself on a course of action that would ultimately result in his death.

I think all these motherfuckers got caught up in some shit the implications of which they had no clue. Like Ted Cruz shutting down the government to accomplish exactly dick. Dafuq they even thinking? "Actions have consequences." - FBI

But I appreciate your characterization of the fools. They should get some leniency for being fucking stupid.

The Stupid Defense? Should the verdict be a very Scottish "Guilty but Stupid"? Consider

Or do you want to go full moronic for "Not guilty by reason of stupidity"? Big Grin

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-01-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(29-01-2016 09:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 08:52 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm personally not a fan of the concept of heeding too much attention to what one deserves, as it tends to have little relevance in regards to what one gets or doesn't get. I prefer to view the world and everything in it simply as cause/effect. As far as I can tell, it sounds like he was a decent, respectable guy. A respectable guy who got caught up in this bullshit and set himself on a course of action that would ultimately result in his death.

I think all these motherfuckers got caught up in some shit the implications of which they had no clue. Like Ted Cruz shutting down the government to accomplish exactly dick. Dafuq they even thinking? "Actions have consequences." - FBI

But I appreciate your characterization of the fools. They should get some leniency for being fucking stupid.

Recognizing their qualities beyond their tactical ineptitude doesn't mean I believe in leniency. Even if I had some degree of respect for the guy I'd still have shot him and slept soundly that night.

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30-01-2016, 07:39 AM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
Ok, here is a very clean copy. It's just the shooting.





I think I see him fumbling for his weapon.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-01-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
Hard to say, looks like he's reaching for something. Maybe footage from a body cam on one of the enforcement people will become available, and show a better picture. I'll not judge for sure until I see that.
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30-01-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(30-01-2016 10:42 AM)Fireball Wrote:  Hard to say, looks like he's reaching for something. Maybe footage from a body cam on one of the enforcement people will become available, and show a better picture. I'll not judge for sure until I see that.

They are FBI, already been stated they do not wear body cams. This is the best you will get.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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30-01-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
It looks to me he reached that way a couple of times but when he was shot, his hand was in the pocket.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-01-2016, 04:03 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(29-01-2016 08:39 PM)I Am Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  I think the problem here is he had his hands up and looks to be surrendering. ... and then something goes wrong. If he went for his gun, he unfortunately got what he deserves.

I have to disagree. He did not deserve to die. At the very least, he deserved due process of law before being deprived of his life. If he had been hit in the arm and lived, no one would say he actually deserved summary execution and got off easy.

That's not to say the shooter was unjustified in shooting. I don't know if he was or not.

I am completely in the camp of people being deserving of due process and the cops not being executioners. And, I didn't mean he deserved to die, but he deserved to be shot if he went for his gun. It's not an optimal situation but, as was pointed out several times, he had made some real threats about not being taken alive and he was armed. Tensions were high and if he moved for his weapon, getting shot was a very predictable outcome.

Yakearder - to your point, I agree the totality of the situation matters. But, if his hands were up and he was not threatening and was surrendering -- and then the cops opened fire -- that's a problem. It's a crime. Even in war you are not allowed to shoot the enemy once they surrender, drop their guns and put up their hands. Yes, I realize it probably happens but it's against international law.

And, this wasn't a war. These are civilians with big mouths. Or, put another way and using the wisdom of The Dude, "this isn't Nam, there are rules".

The more I read, the more I think the guy went for his weapon and it was a clean shoot. Too bad that it ended with bloodshed. There seem to be no shortage of people with the "fuck him" attitude but he was a person with a family who had a life and people who counted on him. He set up the circumstances for his death and, even if the shoot wasn't clean, I think a lot of the fault for his death falls with him. But, that doesn't make it anything to celebrate or be happy about and based on the internet, a lot of people are celebrating and are happy about it.

Hopefully the last wingnuts holding out give up before there is any more bloodshed or violence.

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31-01-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
(30-01-2016 07:39 AM)Dom Wrote:  Ok, here is a very clean copy. It's just the shooting.





I think I see him fumbling for his weapon.

Yes it does look like he was trying to get something out of His pocket or something. And he tried a couple if times before he was shot so they gave him more then he should've got. If I were there the first time he reached for something I would have shot. That's what I see.
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31-01-2016, 09:45 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
There were other people in the vehicle, people who didn't want to die. He ran away from the vehicle to avoid their deaths, kudos to him for that. When he wasn't immediately gunned down, he made obvious actions to indicate that the officers should shoot. Testimony from his own people inside the truck say that he was telling them to "shoot me already".

Suicide by cop. He had previously indicated his intent in a situation like this on the internet. He wanted to make a statement whether it meant his own blood or someone else's. It is a justified shooting, and what he wanted if you ask me.

Sad and unnecessary, but it is what it is.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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01-02-2016, 06:50 PM
RE: Terrorist Attack in Oregon
His Obituary. Some golden excerpts.



Quote:Robert LaVoy Finicum was born on January 27, 1961 in Kanab, UT and was murdered the day before his 55th birthday on January 26, 2016.

"Murdered"

Quote:LaVoy was born to David and Nelda Finicum and had six siblings, Sherre, Guy, Jody, Jill, Misty, and Tadi. LaVoy was married to Dorthea Jeanette Finicum on February 18, 1994 and together they have eleven children, Thara, Belle, Tell, Tawny, Arianna, Brittney, Mitch, Thomas, Challice, Danielle, and Tean. Combined they have 19 grandchildren with three more on the way.

Jesus that's a big family.

Quote:LaVoy loved God, his family, and his country. He believed that the Constitution of the United States was inspired by God and he was willing to, and did, die while defending our freedoms stated within.

Sounds about right.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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