Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
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20-07-2013, 09:47 PM
Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(20-07-2013 06:58 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 06:38 PM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  I got Anarcho-Capitalist. That's pretty close to right. I like the idea of anarchy in theory, but in reality I think we do need some government. Military (that stays home), police, fire, and courts; nothing more. We could cut the federal government by 90% easily.

Ah, so you are one of those delusional shit brains that completely disregards crony capitalism and subscribes to the psychopathy of Ayn Rand because actually thinking about politics and economics makes your brain hurt.

Nope, I can't stand crony capitalism and neither could Ayn Rand. I love actual capitalism, which is nothing more than economic freedom. Ayn Rand's philosophy takes a great deal of thinking. It may seem ridiculous on its face, because one must look deeper in order to understand it.

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21-07-2013, 03:26 AM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2013 03:35 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(20-07-2013 09:47 PM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  Nope, I can't stand crony capitalism and neither could Ayn Rand. I love actual capitalism, which is nothing more than economic freedom. Ayn Rand's philosophy takes a great deal of thinking. It may seem ridiculous on its face, because one must look deeper in order to understand it.

No, your anarcho-capitalist/libertarians would simply give birth to a corporate state. Unrestricted economics will always result in crony capitalism. Ayn Rand was a moron. Her philosophy doesn't require any deeper understanding. She was a sociopathic economic darwinian with little understanding of how economics work.

I'd like you to see what corporation CEOs do with their fortunes.




The issue is not the government. It is that we enable corporations to influence government and not the other way around. The most successful nations on Earth have large social governments while the ones that don't live in squalor and poverty.

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21-07-2013, 07:50 AM
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(20-07-2013 09:47 PM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 06:58 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Ah, so you are one of those delusional shit brains that completely disregards crony capitalism and subscribes to the psychopathy of Ayn Rand because actually thinking about politics and economics makes your brain hurt.

Nope, I can't stand crony capitalism and neither could Ayn Rand. I love actual capitalism, which is nothing more than economic freedom. Ayn Rand's philosophy takes a great deal of thinking. It may seem ridiculous on its face, because one must look deeper in order to understand it.

Her philosophy is simplistic; there is no 'deeper'. Drinking Beverage

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21-07-2013, 09:26 AM
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
Just going to chime in on the Ayn Rand commentary...

Her observations where insightful, the idea that bureaucratic (how many vowels does one word need btw) sprawl leads to corruption, that regulation leads to aggressive lobbies, that business is hampered by the government...these are all valid.

Her solution on the other hand is so beyond naive that it's mind blowing. "Let everyone do whatever they want and it will all magically sort itself out." Any Randism is a one way ticket to the post apocalypse. How do you avoid the slave wages and worker deaths of early 1900's steal mills without regulation? How does one protect ones property from chemical spills? How do we conserve our resources, protect our water and air? How do you deal with monopoly on the scale of standard oil? Everyone in Atlas Shrugged was a perfectly moral upstanding citizen (because that is the only way her philosophy works) we know now better than ever that just because you are a 'prime mover' that doesn't make you an altruist.

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21-07-2013, 09:34 AM
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(21-07-2013 09:26 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Her observations where insightful, the idea that bureaucratic (how many vowels does one word need btw) sprawl leads to corruption, that regulation leads to aggressive lobbies, that business is hampered by the government...these are all valid.

The problem is what she was forced to use as grounds for her ridiculous argument. Let's forget that she was a sociopath for a moment and look at what governments she had experienced. Two extremes with their own major issues. She dealt with a control economy and a free market, the polar opposites. Instead of attempting to argue for a middle ground, she simply wanted to give up on civilization entirely.

She is correct that bureaucracy can lead to corruption. She was right that lobbying is bad, but she was incorrect in assuming that regulation leads to it. Regulate lobbying rights. Structure the government so that corporations do not hold power over federal institutions. Her arguments were poorly informed and extreme.

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21-07-2013, 11:04 AM
Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(21-07-2013 03:26 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 09:47 PM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  Nope, I can't stand crony capitalism and neither could Ayn Rand. I love actual capitalism, which is nothing more than economic freedom. Ayn Rand's philosophy takes a great deal of thinking. It may seem ridiculous on its face, because one must look deeper in order to understand it.

No, your anarcho-capitalist/libertarians would simply give birth to a corporate state. Unrestricted economics will always result in crony capitalism. Ayn Rand was a moron. Her philosophy doesn't require any deeper understanding. She was a sociopathic economic darwinian with little understanding of how economics work.

I'd like you to see what corporation CEOs do with their fortunes.




The issue is not the government. It is that we enable corporations to influence government and not the other way around. The most successful nations on Earth have large social governments while the ones that don't live in squalor and poverty.

Crony capitalism requires intervention from the state. The problem we have now is we do not have a free economy, not by a long shot. Man deserves economic freedom just as much as he deserves social freedom. If I want to start a business, that's my concern and no one else's.

Government has plenty of influence on corporations, too much in fact. There are a myriad of government regulations to plow through if you are stupid enough (in the mind of the government) to start a business. Government taxes citizens every minute of their lives and continues to do so after death. I simply want government out of my life. It is none of the government's goddamn business what I do with my own fucking money, and the same stands for CEO's.

"Laissez nous faire!"

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor will I ever ask another man to live for mine."
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21-07-2013, 11:08 AM
Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(21-07-2013 09:34 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 09:26 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Her observations where insightful, the idea that bureaucratic (how many vowels does one word need btw) sprawl leads to corruption, that regulation leads to aggressive lobbies, that business is hampered by the government...these are all valid.

The problem is what she was forced to use as grounds for her ridiculous argument. Let's forget that she was a sociopath for a moment and look at what governments she had experienced. Two extremes with their own major issues. She dealt with a control economy and a free market, the polar opposites. Instead of attempting to argue for a middle ground, she simply wanted to give up on civilization entirely.

She is correct that bureaucracy can lead to corruption. She was right that lobbying is bad, but she was incorrect in assuming that regulation leads to it. Regulate lobbying rights. Structure the government so that corporations do not hold power over federal institutions. Her arguments were poorly informed and extreme.

Bureaucracy necessarily leads to corruption, every bureaucracy is corrupt, every single one. This world has never seen an uncorrupt bureaucracy, and never will.

"Laissez nous faire!"

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor will I ever ask another man to live for mine."
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21-07-2013, 11:36 AM
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(21-07-2013 11:08 AM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 09:34 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The problem is what she was forced to use as grounds for her ridiculous argument. Let's forget that she was a sociopath for a moment and look at what governments she had experienced. Two extremes with their own major issues. She dealt with a control economy and a free market, the polar opposites. Instead of attempting to argue for a middle ground, she simply wanted to give up on civilization entirely.

She is correct that bureaucracy can lead to corruption. She was right that lobbying is bad, but she was incorrect in assuming that regulation leads to it. Regulate lobbying rights. Structure the government so that corporations do not hold power over federal institutions. Her arguments were poorly informed and extreme.

Bureaucracy necessarily leads to corruption, every bureaucracy is corrupt, every single one. This world has never seen an uncorrupt bureaucracy, and never will.

Bullshit ideology. You have made a patently false statement.

Every bureaucrat? Try arguing from evidence, not bullshit.

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21-07-2013, 11:37 AM
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(21-07-2013 11:04 AM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 03:26 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  No, your anarcho-capitalist/libertarians would simply give birth to a corporate state. Unrestricted economics will always result in crony capitalism. Ayn Rand was a moron. Her philosophy doesn't require any deeper understanding. She was a sociopathic economic darwinian with little understanding of how economics work.

I'd like you to see what corporation CEOs do with their fortunes.




The issue is not the government. It is that we enable corporations to influence government and not the other way around. The most successful nations on Earth have large social governments while the ones that don't live in squalor and poverty.

Crony capitalism requires intervention from the state. The problem we have now is we do not have a free economy, not by a long shot. Man deserves economic freedom just as much as he deserves social freedom. If I want to start a business, that's my concern and no one else's.

Government has plenty of influence on corporations, too much in fact. There are a myriad of government regulations to plow through if you are stupid enough (in the mind of the government) to start a business. Government taxes citizens every minute of their lives and continues to do so after death. I simply want government out of my life. It is none of the government's goddamn business what I do with my own fucking money, and the same stands for CEO's.

Crony capitalism requires the undermining of the state by dishonest, greedy people. "The State" is not inherently anything.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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21-07-2013, 11:50 AM
RE: Test for which European political ideology you are closest to
(21-07-2013 11:04 AM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  Crony capitalism requires intervention from the state. The problem we have now is we do not have a free economy, not by a long shot. Man deserves economic freedom just as much as he deserves social freedom. If I want to start a business, that's my concern and no one else's.

Crony capitalism requires corporate control over federal institutions, which is exactly what the United States is currently suffering from. The government is the tool of the big corporate players and has been for over 40 years. Did you even watch the documentary I supplied you?

(21-07-2013 11:04 AM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  Government has plenty of influence on corporations, too much in fact. There are a myriad of government regulations to plow through if you are stupid enough (in the mind of the government) to start a business. Government taxes citizens every minute of their lives and continues to do so after death. I simply want government out of my life. It is none of the government's goddamn business what I do with my own fucking money, and the same stands for CEO's.

This "myriad" of government regulation has been stripped clean or ignored for the past 40 years. The regulations that are still in place are being repealed by corporate lobbyists or basic ones that don't inhibit bloated wealth for the upper class. Again, watch the video.

Please demonstrate to me how the government has overstepped its bounds with you. What, income taxes? Taxes in general? Pull your own wait you fucking mongoloid. You use the same services we all do, so you will pay the price of living in a modern society. If you don't want to, here is the ideal nation for you:

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(21-07-2013 11:08 AM)Crimson Flyboy Wrote:  Bureaucracy necessarily leads to corruption, every bureaucracy is corrupt, every single one. This world has never seen an uncorrupt bureaucracy, and never will.

I demand evidence for that overly-generalized claim.
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