Testing Our Faith!?
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16-04-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
(16-04-2016 05:49 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  I made a blog post about creationism and got my first creationist commenter. They said something that was really confusing to me.

Quote:... You also asked, “What about the evidence that definitely doesn’t support Biblical creation?” Regarding that evidence, I would say a decision must be made, either to believe in Christianity or in Atheism. Christianity can explain all contrary evidence, here are a few Bible verses that explain why:

Isaiah 45:15 Truly You are God, who hide Yourself, O God of Israel, the Savior!

1 Chronicles 29:17 “I know also, my God, that You test the heart and have pleasure in uprightness….”

Deuteronomy 13:1-3
1 ¶ “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 “and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’ — which you have not known — ‘and let us serve them,’
3 “you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

As these verses clearly teach, God deliberately hides himself, tests our hearts, and even causes contrary evidence to test whether we love him with all our heart and soul. So the Christian can say that God deliberately caused the evidence that does not support Biblical creation, in order to test us.

If God is hiding, wouldn't it still be clear that he did something? What would be the point of making stuff look like you had nothing to do with it? If he made stuff, shouldn't he make it clear that it was him and not some other deity? God is deliberately causing the evidence to not support biblical creation!? How do I even know he's real then? Why would he want us to have blind faith?

Then, they go on to say this:
Quote:Now let’s ask the same question of Atheism. How can Atheism explain the powerful evidence for Biblical creation? Answer: Atheism can’t explain the evidence for creation. Atheism doesn’t have the resources to explain the abundance of evidence for creation.

Atheism is just not believing in any deity. I don't understand what point they're trying to make here.

Here's my favorite part:
Quote:Clearly then, Christianity should be accepted, because it can explain all the evidence easily, while Atheism should be rejected, because there is a great body of evidence it cannot explain.

Why Christianity? Why not Judiasm or Islam? The creation and evolution debate isn't a Christian vs atheist thing. There are religious people who understand evolution. There are also other religions with creation stories. I don't see how they came to the conclusion that Christianity must be the true religion.

Just because an explanation is given for something doesn't mean it's true. I could explain why there's wind by saying "God is trying to cool his food." That's not true, though. Scientists are willing to admit that they don't know something. Then, they will work hard to learn more. Unlike so many creationists, they don't start with a conclusion.

Also, there have been explanations for things people have used for evidence of creation. A great example would be Kent and Eric Hovind's presentations. A lot of that stuff has been debunked or explained. It's not atheism explaining it, though. Atheism isn't an explanation. People explain things with science and finding out what really happened in an event. If we don't know something, we can say that.

What do you guys think?

I'd be curious of what his "evidence" is, unless it really is the bible. But honestly, some of these creationists really think they have concrete evidence, lol, and I'm just curious of what his might be.

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16-04-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
People like this creationist don't understand that atheism doesn't claim any special knowledge or insights into the origins of the universe or life on this planet. It's simply a rejection of the God claim. If they want to get into the science of it and refute the Big Bang theory or evolution they will need to clearly and comprehensively refute every piece of evidence that proves evolution as a fact. They can't simply say "The Bible says that God did it and and even though there is no direct evidence for it there are gaps in the other theories....so God did it!"

You are right that there is no reason whatsoever to say that this God, Yahweh Jealous Elohim had anything to do with the creation of the universe just because an old book says so and lots of people believe it. You could literally place anything or anyone into that blank space. Until Yahweh himself or Jesus comes down and tells each and every human in a tangible verifiable way that he was the creator of all the cosmos we could just say "The Care Bears created the universe, scientists can't disprove this." It would be just as true according to their logic.

Even if scientists concluded without any doubt that our universe and our very lives are the direct result of an intelligent designer/creator we would still have no idea who that creator was or why the universe was created in the first place. Even the Bible can't explain why God just decided to create a planet one day and populate it with people he could judge and decide where they would spend the entirety of their endless existence after death. It can only be assumed it was so he could be worshiped, which is a terrible reason to do something. There are even older books and stories that explain deities like him. There's no reason to say Brahma the Hindu creator God wasn't the true designer of everything in existence but since this creatard hasn't studied the Hindu religion and has been indoctrinated into the believing Christianity is the true religion he's just going to stick with that.

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16-04-2016, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2016 03:51 PM by Commonsensei.)
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
Quote:... You also asked, “What about the evidence that definitely doesn’t support Biblical creation?” Regarding that evidence, I would say a decision must be made, either to believe in Christianity or in Atheism.

Right out of the gate you can see how he's mistaken. Atheism is a lack of belief.

Quote:Christianity can explain all contrary evidence, here are a few Bible verses that explain why:

Isaiah 45:15 Truly You are God, who hide Yourself, O God of Israel, the Savior!

1 Chronicles 29:17 “I know also, my God, that You test the heart and have pleasure in uprightness….”

Deuteronomy 13:1-3
1 ¶ “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 “and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’ — which you have not known — ‘and let us serve them,’
3 “you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

God Hide-n-seek champion going on 14 billion years.

Lack of evidence is not evidence. This same logic can be apleid any deity ever conseved. As we'll as any mythical creature.

Quote:As these verses clearly teach, God deliberately hides himself, tests our hearts, and even causes contrary evidence to test whether we love him with all our heart and soul. So the Christian can say that God deliberately caused the evidence that does not support Biblical creation, in order to test us.

If this was true that god would not only be a huge Jackass it would be a tremendous idiot.

If the god was going threw such lengths to keep it self hidden all that would demonstrate that it wanted nothing to do with this. Let's apply this same logic to a real world senerario.

Let's say god is a woman that was being stalked. the believer is the stalker. He calls god on the phone everyday leaving messages like "Where are you?" "I could really use some money." "I love you." So god changes her number. So the stalker shows up to the her house relentless says "how much he wants to be part of her world." So god moves to another country, changes her name, gets a restraining order.

The Stalker thinks "This is just how she shows she loves me."

A test for hearts is also a stupid idea. Humans die randomly threw out a life time. Many even before birth. Some for over 100 years.

So we're in a class room.

Teacher says "OK class pop quiz. Bill Jane, Tommy, you all failed go to the principles office." The students look back in shock Bill responds "But we even get a chance to take the test." "That doesn't matter" the teacher exclaims "You've already failed the class get out. Except you Tommy and Jane, you get to pass the school year."

No papers get passed out and the students just sit and stare at the teacher waiting for some sort of clue what the quiz is about.

A student raises his hand "Teacher how long will this be?" The teacher looks at the student and points to the door. "To the principles!"

The students sit among themselves trying to figure out what the test is how, they can pass. When more questions are asked the teacher just stare blindly at them. As if she not even listen. Threw out the day they are pick off randomly, never really knowing what they are doing right or wrong. They all create conclusions maybe one group had gotten the test questions right. But they have been picked off just like the rest of the class. Some students even kick themselves out of the class.

Eventually one or two students are left. Teacher the whole time never said a word.

The second period comes into the class room. The first period trys to give what the information that think is right on how to pass the class. But they have next to nothing. and so the cycle continues.

Quote:Now let’s ask the same question of Atheism. How can Atheism explain the powerful evidence for Biblical creation?

[Image: Laughing-Animated-Gif-14.gif]

Quote:Answer: Atheism can’t explain the evidence for creation. Atheism doesn’t have the resources to explain the abundance of evidence for creation.

Well he's right. Atheist can't explain evidence for creation. Because that isn't the right question when Atheism is asked.

The Scientific method would be the best method for coming to the most reasonable conclusion. Creation has no method out side of woo.

Quote:Clearly then, Christianity should be accepted, because it can explain all the evidence easily, while Atheism should be rejected, because there is a great body of evidence it cannot explain.

[Image: giphy.gif]


Facepalm What a joke.

I would ask for what his strongest evidence would be. If he has it in such abundance it should be easy.

I bet my left nut he'd say the bible.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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16-04-2016, 04:06 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
Well that could be it, but then you really don't know what "passing" the test would be.

Perhaps that's what it is but what is desired is you to not believe and not have faith in any gods.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-04-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
(16-04-2016 04:06 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Well that could be it, but then you really don't know what "passing" the test would be.

Perhaps that's what it is but what is desired is you to not believe and not have faith in any gods.

I always think sometimes the test is to reject the Bible and all it's magical nonsense and immoral laws and the clear evil actions of this supposed all loving God. Maybe we're the ones passing the test and they are going to be punished for actually worshiping this God who was clearly a psychopath and gave an unfair challenge to believe blindly or be punished forever. This isn't the case but I still feel like we passed the test regardless.

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16-04-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
I figure that the test, if there is one, is exceedingly simple.

Everybody goes to the afterlife that they expected.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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16-04-2016, 05:01 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
Your respondent obviously doesn't understand what atheism is, that it's nothing more than a state of mind. It has no specific social tenets to be followed, no unique set of morals or ethics, no holy book to be rigidly obeyed, no supreme god person, no temples of worship etc.

And there is no necessity for atheists to "prove" that the Christian god doesn't exist; as the proponents of this notion, it's up to the Christians to prove that he does.

You'll find most Christians' powers of rational thinking somewhat lacking.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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16-04-2016, 11:58 PM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
(16-04-2016 05:01 PM)SYZ Wrote:  You'll find most Christians' powers of rational thinking somewhat lacking.

All. By definition. If they had decent powers of rational thinking they'd be atheists. The most interesting are the ones who *can* think critically about other parts of their lives but as soon as someone passes the collection plate their brains shut down.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-04-2016, 01:14 AM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
(16-04-2016 03:00 PM)morondog Wrote:  Every year or so scientists discover the remains of Noah's ark on Mount Ararat Rolleyes

[Image: Ark-diagram.jpg]

Noah's Ark at the Durupınar site, Agri, Turkey.

Looks more like a giant banjo shark to me...

[Image: 3510233710291a3c8e7c1f75f231a80e.jpg]

Big Grin

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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17-04-2016, 01:18 AM
RE: Testing Our Faith!?
(17-04-2016 01:14 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(16-04-2016 03:00 PM)morondog Wrote:  Every year or so scientists discover the remains of Noah's ark on Mount Ararat Rolleyes

[Image: Ark-diagram.jpg]

Noah's Ark at the Durupınar site, Agri, Turkey.

Looks more like a giant banjo shark to me...

[Image: 3510233710291a3c8e7c1f75f231a80e.jpg]

Big Grin

Looks more like a geological formation to me...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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