Texas Church Shooting
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09-11-2017, 08:09 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 07:04 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  I am tired of this bullshit coming from the worshipers.

No matter what we do, EVEN WHEN WE AGREE all we get is 'NO!"

Nutters, "It's the mentally ill"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters, "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the terrorists"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters, "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the domestic abusers"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the criminals"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters, "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the liberals"

Sane, "Sad that even when we admit a liberal shoots republican congressmen, even then you still don't want to do shit".

Nutters, "FUCK YOU, JUST SELL MORE AND DO NOTHING".

No problem restricting those with domestic violence or terrorism related convictions from owning guns. Mental health is a trickier problem in that, even if you force someone to take a test, answering truthfully on that test is voluntary. If the goal is to expand treatment of mental health and you introduce restrictions (to anything people commonly want, not just guns) based on that voluntary choice, then the end result is going to be people avoiding diagnosis and therefore not getting treated.

If a proposed solution to one aspect of a problem exacerbates the damage potential of a different aspect of the same problem, it is not a rational solution.

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09-11-2017, 08:15 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 07:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:34 PM)Dom Wrote:  I believe AR-15 is what has been used a lot by these nitwits... There is no need for a weapon with it's capabilities to be in the hands of people who have not been vetted properly and who cannot prove that this type weapon is needed by them for? whatever such a reason could be.

Stop with the damn classifications. It's a freaking smoke screen and does not address the issue at all. Nobody needs a weapon that can kill hundreds of people in short order. No one.

Hunters need rifles, people need handguns for self defense, I am fine with that. But we don't need weapons that are killing so many people in short order.

Actually, handguns kill far more people than all other firearms combined.

True, but there is something more human about face to face combat or violence. Being able to mow down masses depersonalizes it and makes it much easier.

And I would not count gangs shooting it out among those gun deaths - that is a whole other societal issue that needs totally different approaches.

I am talking about mass killings and weapons that take out large numbers of people in short succession. The mass killings that limit the nonviolent citizen's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These can be controlled by making such weapons unavailable.

There is no one solution to gun violence, but there are ways to fix different aspects of it. Not all of these possible remedies have anything to do with gun control. The US, as a society, has failed miserably in controlling the epidemic. And yes, mass shooting are but one small aspect of the issue. But they are one that can be fixed much easier.

Gang violence is a sociological issue and needs to be approached from that angle.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-11-2017, 08:48 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 08:09 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 07:04 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  I am tired of this bullshit coming from the worshipers.

No matter what we do, EVEN WHEN WE AGREE all we get is 'NO!"

Nutters, "It's the mentally ill"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters, "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the terrorists"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters, "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the domestic abusers"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the criminals"

Sane, "We agree, lets do something"

Nutters, "NO!"

Nutters, "It's the liberals"

Sane, "Sad that even when we admit a liberal shoots republican congressmen, even then you still don't want to do shit".

Nutters, "FUCK YOU, JUST SELL MORE AND DO NOTHING".

No problem restricting those with domestic violence or terrorism related convictions from owning guns. Mental health is a trickier problem in that, even if you force someone to take a test, answering truthfully on that test is voluntary. If the goal is to expand treatment of mental health and you introduce restrictions (to anything people commonly want, not just guns) based on that voluntary choice, then the end result is going to be people avoiding diagnosis and therefore not getting treated.

If a proposed solution to one aspect of a problem exacerbates the damage potential of a different aspect of the same problem, it is not a rational solution.

No sorry, the problem has been obvious and ignored and simple for FUCKING DECADES!

American has an obsession lacking any pragmatism. We manufacture way too many and they are way too easy to obtain.

I am sick of those on the right selling the bullshit fear that the sane are looking for a dictatorship one party state because we point out the obvious.

If our laws worked the way the right claims, we should have seen a reduction in firearm deaths but that is not what we see.

The fans of the far right have bought fear marketing, lead by the manufacturers and their corporate profit lobby NRA. No different than the money big oil pumped into politics to keep lead in gas. No different than car companies in the 70s did in fighting Nader when he told them their products sucked. No different than big tobacco when they created "smokers rights" bullshit to avoid the fact that their products were creating a public safety issue.

MARKETING is all this shit is about. It isn't about gun rights, it never was. It is about PROFITS.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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09-11-2017, 08:48 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 04:11 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Do I need to use lethal force as my only means of response in a fist fight?

You need to answer first how self-'defense is immoral because it's "reciprocal violence", which was your insinuation. Of course, having engaged you on this topic at AF before, I already know to expect slipshod thinking from you.

Anyway, I'll answer your strawman question once you can explain why violent self-defense in the face of violence is immoral ... if I see fit.
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09-11-2017, 09:01 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 08:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 04:11 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Do I need to use lethal force as my only means of response in a fist fight?

You need to answer first how self-'defense is immoral because it's "reciprocal violence", which was your insinuation. Of course, having engaged you on this topic at AF before, I already know to expect slipshod thinking from you.

Anyway, I'll answer your strawman question once you can explain why violent self-defense in the face of violence is immoral ... if I see fit.

I never implied it was immoral, just not a good strategy. People do love to get outraged over things I never said.
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09-11-2017, 09:39 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
Long live smokers rights is all I can say. Drinking Beverage Big Grin
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09-11-2017, 09:42 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 09:01 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I never implied it was immoral, just not a good strategy.

lol, not "good strategy" to reply to violence with violence? What do you suggest, a lei and perhaps a sing-a-long?

It's funny watching the contortions you perform rather than simply saying, "yeah, that came out wrong, let me rephrase that."


(09-11-2017 09:01 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  People do love to get outraged over things I never said.

You rate yourself too high if you think I'm "outraged" by anything you write ... but if people are misunderstanding you, perhaps you should write clearly rather than circumlocute.

Just a thought.
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09-11-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(08-11-2017 05:34 PM)Dom Wrote:  I believe AR-15 is what has been used a lot by these nitwits... There is no need for a weapon with it's capabilities to be in the hands of people who have not been vetted properly and who cannot prove that this type weapon is needed by them for...

Good point, and one I agree totally with. It's of critical note that Devin Patrick Kelley was not properly vetted, and slipped under the radar all too easily. How many other sociopaths are out there with a trunk full of firearms, and just waiting to pull off a similar deadly exploit as vengeance for some perceived slight(s)? And it doesn't matter whether it was the Navy, or the police, or the gun dealer who seriously fucked up—what happened was preventable from the start.

Quote:Stop with the damn classifications. It's a freaking smoke screen and does not address the issue at all. Nobody needs a weapon that can kill hundreds of people in short order. No one.

Agreed again. The people who're muddying the waters here with their definitions of firearm types or deployment are mostly those defending their outmoded 2nd Amendment gun "rights". Rights that were built around woefully inaccurate, single shot muskets more than 200 years ago, and 120 years before the BAR was deployed during WWII. That the NRA and its supporters cling solely to the literal wording of the 2nd Amendment is similar to the theists who also cling—with some desperation—to another embarrassingly outdated set of rules.

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09-11-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
Agreed...

(09-11-2017 08:48 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  MARKETING is all this shit is about. It isn't about gun rights, it never was. It is about PROFITS.

• Annual revenue of US gun and ammunition manufacturing industry = $13.5 billion,

• Annual revenue of US gun and ammunition stores = $3.1 billion,

• The number of pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns and miscellaneous firearms manufactured in the US in 2013 (the latest full year available) = 10,847,792,

• The cost of fatal and non-fatal gun violence to the US in 2012 (the latest full year available) = $229 billion.


—And further:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 153,144 people were killed by homicides in the US in which firearms were used, between 2001 and 2013 (the last year that data are available).

The Global Terrorism Database, which uses a criteria to determine terrorist attacks but also includes acts of violence that are more ambiguous in goal, estimates that 3,046 people in the U.S. died in terrorist acts between 2001 and 2014.

[All figures ex NBC News, October 2015]


Sad

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09-11-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(09-11-2017 09:42 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 09:01 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I never implied it was immoral, just not a good strategy.

lol, not "good strategy" to reply to violence with violence? What do you suggest, a lei and perhaps a sing-a-long?

It's funny watching the contortions you perform rather than simply saying, "yeah, that came out wrong, let me rephrase that."


(09-11-2017 09:01 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  People do love to get outraged over things I never said.

You rate yourself too high if you think I'm "outraged" by anything you write ... but if people are misunderstanding you, perhaps you should write clearly rather than circumlocute.

Just a thought.

Nah, people will keep on doing just what you're doing.
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