Texas Church Shooting
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11-11-2017, 04:50 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 12:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 10:13 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The people who're muddying the waters here with their definitions of firearm types or deployment are mostly those defending their outmoded 2nd Amendment gun "rights".

Why is rights in scare quotes? The Second Amendment protects a pre-existing right.

Quote: Rights that were built around woefully inaccurate, single shot muskets more than 200 years ago, and 120 years before the BAR was deployed during WWII.

This is misleading at best. Those rifles and muskets were the equal of the military's, and in some cases superior to them.

Quote:That the NRA and its supporters cling solely to the literal wording of the 2nd Amendment is similar to the theists who also cling—with some desperation—to another embarrassingly outdated set of rules.

Until that Amendment is modified, Americans retain the right to keep and bear arms.
Trying to interpret your way out of that puts all other rights specifically protected in the Constitution at risk of being interpreted away.

The constitution is not the problem, the fucking obsession with objects are the problem. We told corporate Oil to fuck off and take lead out of gas, we told car companies to fuck off and make their cars safer.

We need to tell the gun factories and their profit lobby to FUCK OFF TOO, and do the right thing and stop selling fear and obsession.

The left does not want all all out ban and we are tired of that bullshit marketing of fear by the right. Saying we make too many and they are too easy to obtain, is not saying we want a one party dictatorship. It just means our flooded market is causing far too many deaths.

The worst mistake America made on this issue is reversing the assault ban, and creating laws preventing the lawsuits of the makers. GOP is now trying to do the same shit with nursing homes making it illegal to sue them if your elderly loved one gets hurt or dies while being in one.

But ultimately nothing will change until we break the monopoly on big business in general, not just firearms. Firearms are a business like any other, and because of 36 years of Reagan's deregulation, they get away with basically the same as selling beer to alcoholics. The same protectionism of our flooded market is what allowed big pharma to create our opiate problem.

This isn't about rights one bit. This is about vile marketing with the sole intent to increase profits and expand the market, regardless of any negative impact it may have on society.

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11-11-2017, 06:51 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 04:50 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 12:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why is rights in scare quotes? The Second Amendment protects a pre-existing right.


This is misleading at best. Those rifles and muskets were the equal of the military's, and in some cases superior to them.


Until that Amendment is modified, Americans retain the right to keep and bear arms.
Trying to interpret your way out of that puts all other rights specifically protected in the Constitution at risk of being interpreted away.

The constitution is not the problem, the fucking obsession with objects are the problem. We told corporate Oil to fuck off and take lead out of gas, we told car companies to fuck off and make their cars safer.

We need to tell the gun factories and their profit lobby to FUCK OFF TOO, and do the right thing and stop selling fear and obsession.

The left does not want all all out ban and we are tired of that bullshit marketing of fear by the right. Saying we make too many and they are too easy to obtain, is not saying we want a one party dictatorship. It just means our flooded market is causing far too many deaths.

The worst mistake America made on this issue is reversing the assault ban, and creating laws preventing the lawsuits of the makers. GOP is now trying to do the same shit with nursing homes making it illegal to sue them if your elderly loved one gets hurt or dies while being in one.

But ultimately nothing will change until we break the monopoly on big business in general, not just firearms. Firearms are a business like any other, and because of 36 years of Reagan's deregulation, they get away with basically the same as selling beer to alcoholics. The same protectionism of our flooded market is what allowed big pharma to create our opiate problem.

This isn't about rights one bit. This is about vile marketing with the sole intent to increase profits and expand the market, regardless of any negative impact it may have on society.

AND????


How do you propose to remedy the situation?

You're long on piss and moan, short on ideas to change anything..

....

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11-11-2017, 07:07 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:50 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  The constitution is not the problem, the fucking obsession with objects are the problem. We told corporate Oil to fuck off and take lead out of gas, we told car companies to fuck off and make their cars safer.

We need to tell the gun factories and their profit lobby to FUCK OFF TOO, and do the right thing and stop selling fear and obsession.

The left does not want all all out ban and we are tired of that bullshit marketing of fear by the right. Saying we make too many and they are too easy to obtain, is not saying we want a one party dictatorship. It just means our flooded market is causing far too many deaths.

The worst mistake America made on this issue is reversing the assault ban, and creating laws preventing the lawsuits of the makers. GOP is now trying to do the same shit with nursing homes making it illegal to sue them if your elderly loved one gets hurt or dies while being in one.

But ultimately nothing will change until we break the monopoly on big business in general, not just firearms. Firearms are a business like any other, and because of 36 years of Reagan's deregulation, they get away with basically the same as selling beer to alcoholics. The same protectionism of our flooded market is what allowed big pharma to create our opiate problem.

This isn't about rights one bit. This is about vile marketing with the sole intent to increase profits and expand the market, regardless of any negative impact it may have on society.

AND????


How do you propose to remedy the situation?

You're long on piss and moan, short on ideas to change anything..

All I know is that with a downer on tobacco and now alcohol going to a party at Brian's wouldn't exactly be a blast. Rolleyes Laugh out load
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11-11-2017, 07:28 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 07:07 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  AND????


How do you propose to remedy the situation?

You're long on piss and moan, short on ideas to change anything..

All I know is that with a downer on tobacco and now alcohol going to a party at Brian's wouldn't exactly be a blast. Rolleyes Laugh out load

The Donner Party might be more fun..

Consider

....

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11-11-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 07:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 07:07 AM)adey67 Wrote:  All I know is that with a downer on tobacco and now alcohol going to a party at Brian's wouldn't exactly be a blast. Rolleyes Laugh out load

The Donner Party might be more fun..

Consider

Only if you're hungry enough for a man sized meal.

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11-11-2017, 12:38 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2017 03:45 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(10-11-2017 08:13 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  The good guy with a gun kept him from escaping, which is why the police are hailing him as a hero who saved lives.

To be honest, I'm more impressed by the pickup truck driver who didn't have a gun. Man with a gun waves me down in the street, jumps in my cab and says "We gotta get him, he just shot up a church." I'm pretty sure I would have jumped out of my truck and started running. ... I mean if I was actually still capable of jumping or running.

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11-11-2017, 04:00 PM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 12:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-11-2017 08:13 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  The good guy with a gun kept him from escaping, which is why the police are hailing him as a hero who saved lives.

To be honest, I'm more impressed by the pickup truck driver who didn't have a gun. Man with a gun waves me down in the street, jumps in my cab and says "We gotta get him, he just shot up a church." I'm pretty sure I would have jumped out of my truck and started running. ... I mean if I was actually still capable of jumping or running.

Texas...

When somebody jumps in your car with a gun and says " let's go get that sonsabitch" - it seems like a reasonable request...
Tongue

....

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11-11-2017, 07:07 PM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:50 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  The constitution is not the problem, the fucking obsession with objects are the problem...
How do you propose to remedy the situation?

You're long on piss and moan, short on ideas to change anything..

As an "outsider" it's difficult for me to appropriately sit in judgment of the apparent American obsession with firearms and their rights of ownership. To me, a lot of it seems to centre around a deliberate misinterpretation of the more than 200-year-old 2nd Amendment which was intended to allow the arming of a civilian militia—with single-shot muskets of course rather than automatic weapons capable of emptying a mag in 10 seconds.

During the Congressional debates of June 1789, Founding Father James Madison discussed how a [civilian] militia could help defend liberty against tyranny and oppression. (Although later, Madison came to favour the maintenance of a strong standing federal army.)

I'd imagine that unless the 2nd Amendment is partially reworded to stop its deliberate misconstruing, the gun lobby and the NRA will have their way.
But I can't see that happening any time soon. Sadly.

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11-11-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 07:07 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  How do you propose to remedy the situation?

You're long on piss and moan, short on ideas to change anything..

I'd imagine that unless the 2nd Amendment is partially reworded to stop its deliberate misconstruing, the gun lobby and the NRA will have their way.
But I can't see that happening any time soon. Sadly.

What? Reword a part of the Constitution? Impossible!

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11-11-2017, 08:11 PM
RE: Texas Church Shooting
(11-11-2017 04:00 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 12:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  To be honest, I'm more impressed by the pickup truck driver who didn't have a gun. Man with a gun waves me down in the street, jumps in my cab and says "We gotta get him, he just shot up a church." I'm pretty sure I would have jumped out of my truck and started running. ... I mean if I was actually still capable of jumping or running.

Texas...

When somebody jumps in your car with a gun and says " let's go get that sonsabitch" - it seems like a reasonable request...
Tongue

(11-11-2017 07:07 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  How do you propose to remedy the situation?

You're long on piss and moan, short on ideas to change anything..

As an "outsider" it's difficult for me to appropriately sit in judgment of the apparent American obsession with firearms and their rights of ownership. To me, a lot of it seems to centre around a deliberate misinterpretation of the more than 200-year-old 2nd Amendment which was intended to allow the arming of a civilian militia—with single-shot muskets of course rather than automatic weapons capable of emptying a mag in 10 seconds.

During the Congressional debates of June 1789, Founding Father James Madison discussed how a [civilian] militia could help defend liberty against tyranny and oppression. (Although later, Madison came to favour the maintenance of a strong standing federal army.)

I'd imagine that unless the 2nd Amendment is partially reworded to stop its deliberate misconstruing, the gun lobby and the NRA will have their way.
But I can't see that happening any time soon. Sadly.

That's YOUR opinion.

Our Supreme Court, which interprets the law of the land, has a different opinion.

...

....

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