That Damn Bigfoot Thing
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07-12-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(05-12-2014 05:56 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Multiple eyewitness accounts don't mean squat without further evidence. You really going to give credit to some yahoos every time multiple people see Jesus or Mary in some tree bark? Or Crying statues and ghosts?
We need more evidence, that's all anyone is saying. An aircraft of either alien or human origin doing things that no other craft we know of can do better stand up to scrutiny. Eyewitness accounts are not enough. Same with Bigfoot and elves. I don't care if Iceland is thoroughly convinced enough to build little elf houses and diverting road construction. They clearly aren't endangered if you want to go by eyewitness accounts, same with Bigfoot. Get one of those on a dissecting table or actual bones. Something.

I don't argue that eyewitness accounts are not enough. My entire point here is whether or not credible eyewitness testimony can add to the equation of probability.

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07-12-2014, 10:02 PM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2014 10:08 PM by grizzlysnake.)
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 09:44 PM)Free Wrote:  
(05-12-2014 05:56 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Multiple eyewitness accounts don't mean squat without further evidence. You really going to give credit to some yahoos every time multiple people see Jesus or Mary in some tree bark? Or Crying statues and ghosts?
We need more evidence, that's all anyone is saying. An aircraft of either alien or human origin doing things that no other craft we know of can do better stand up to scrutiny. Eyewitness accounts are not enough. Same with Bigfoot and elves. I don't care if Iceland is thoroughly convinced enough to build little elf houses and diverting road construction. They clearly aren't endangered if you want to go by eyewitness accounts, same with Bigfoot. Get one of those on a dissecting table or actual bones. Something.

I don't argue that eyewitness accounts are not enough. My entire point here is whether or not credible eyewitness testimony can add to the equation of probability.
I don't see how probability even enters in into it. It either is or isn't. These are what we would call extraordinary claims, right? And guess what, credible witness do often make mistakes, as in some court rulings that have sent innocent people to jail for many years only to be released when new evidence arrives to exonerate them. It's a horrible thing when this happens, yes, at least no one is in danger when someone makes a claim they believe to be true of a UFO or Bigfoot sighting.
Anyone can be fooled even the experts.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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07-12-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 10:02 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 09:44 PM)Free Wrote:  I don't argue that eyewitness accounts are not enough. My entire point here is whether or not credible eyewitness testimony can add to the equation of probability.
I don't see how probability even enters in into it. It either is or isn't. These are what we would call extraordinary claims, right? And guess what, credible witness do often make mistakes, as in some court rulings that have sent innocent people to jail for many years only to be released when new evidence arrives to exonerate them. Its a horrible thing when this happens, yes, at least no one is in danger when someone makes a claim they believe to be true of a UFO or Bigfoot sighting.
Anyone can be fooled even the experts.

Often we see examples in law courts of how witnesses can get a defendant convicted.

For example, with just 1 witness, it's a simple matter of "it's his word against mine." Not much can be done in that kind of situation.

But when you have two witnesses saying the same thing, the judge sits up and takes notice. And if you have 3, the judge views the accusations of the witnesses very seriously.

What my point here is, is that the "credibility factor" of credible eyewitness testimony is increased exponentially when you have multiple eyewitnesses of the same event.

Also the chances of multiple eyewitness of the same event being wrong is decreased exponentially.

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07-12-2014, 10:32 PM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2014 11:14 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 08:47 PM)Free Wrote:  Okay, I spent a few days in Banff and thought I should come back to the forum.

Sorry for my display the other day, but I had a few teeth pulled last week and didn't realize I had a bad infection that needed some antibiotics. Suffice to say, between the pain of nearly having my jaw torn apart by the dentist, the infection, plus demands on me IRL, I was not at my best.

My escape to Banff and the antibiotics did me the world of good.

All neg reps removed.

I will start replying to some posts here.

Somewhat surprised to see you back, so let's talk Sasquatch. I've hiked Banff but didn't see any while there, how about you.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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07-12-2014, 10:40 PM
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 10:10 PM)Free Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 10:02 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I don't see how probability even enters in into it. It either is or isn't. These are what we would call extraordinary claims, right? And guess what, credible witness do often make mistakes, as in some court rulings that have sent innocent people to jail for many years only to be released when new evidence arrives to exonerate them. Its a horrible thing when this happens, yes, at least no one is in danger when someone makes a claim they believe to be true of a UFO or Bigfoot sighting.
Anyone can be fooled even the experts.

Often we see examples in law courts of how witnesses can get a defendant convicted.

For example, with just 1 witness, it's a simple matter of "it's his word against mine." Not much can be done in that kind of situation.

But when you have two witnesses saying the same thing, the judge sits up and takes notice. And if you have 3, the judge views the accusations of the witnesses very seriously.

What my point here is, is that the "credibility factor" of credible eyewitness testimony is increased exponentially when you have multiple eyewitnesses of the same event.

Also the chances of multiple eyewitness of the same event being wrong is decreased exponentially.
Think we all been here before. Holy Mother of Tree Bark. Facepalm
Just tried to make an example of that peoples memories can be distorted and things often aren't the way we remember them. This also happens in groups and when they all get to talking about an event the collective story melds from differing perspectives and you'll get inconsistency speaking to a witnesses 1 on 1. It gets even worse when months or even years pass.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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07-12-2014, 11:39 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2014 12:06 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 09:14 PM)Free Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 03:31 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Oh you mean like the dozen or so questions and criticisms dropped on you that you avoided till you left the thread?

This fuckin' guy.

So when you said:

What you actually meant to say was:
"I'm tired of having my ass kicked, my assertions challenged, my shitty analogies exposed, and it hurts my feelings when people tear down the strawmen I worked so hard to build that I'm gonna bail on this thread like a coward without addressing one motherfucking criticism, while answering no questions asked of me, and without defending a single one of my bald faced assertions all while giving a bullshit excuse THEN I'm gonna start a new thread free of all my responsibilities and that pesky burden of proof and I'm gonna try and argue the same point, but I'm gonna pretend I'm actually not, however I'm gonna do it in an indirect, dishonest, and deliberately misleading way by tricking people into admitting I'm "correct" about the last thread using nothing more than an other shitty comparison to two wildly different situations with wildly different claims that only work if I ignore all other factors and evidence in a wildly flagrant display of confirmation bias because I'm that kinda ignorant cocksucker. I'm also gonna continue to use Occam's Razor incorrectly, despite having it's correct usage explained to me in very small words, and only apply it to what I want to apply it to because fuck having an actual debate based in evidence and a consistent application of logic, I wanna convince myself I'm right and that an entire community of rational, skeptical, objective, evidence based thinkers is wrong and that my emotional investment in my obsession is justified! Who cares if I can't get so much as a single like for my personal brand of crazy, everyone else is wrong and I'm right goddammit!"

I can see why you went with the short form lil' bitch escape. Drinking Beverage

If you got time to act like a fucking douchbag in this thread you got time to jump in the UFO thread and actually defend your dumb cunt obsession. I can't fucking believe I was considering up reping you for not holding a grudge over me kicking your tinfoil wearing ass all over your own thread. I'm glad I didn't because you continued on the conversation you just shed all inconvenient arguments you couldn't address like a slimy, dishonest motherfucker.

Finding the female version of a fish we already knew existed and have already examined in the exact fucking place we would expect to find them is in no way a claim with a similar burden of proof as "12 dudes saw a thing and they don't know what it is so it's probably from another star system, oh and it's got aliens in it, oh and it can violate the laws of physics, oh and no one has any actual physical evidence it existed at all, oh and no one took a picture despite there being a healthy community of Airplane spotters there with cameras, oh and there is no agreement on its size or it's shape, oh and I also happen to believe that aliens do this kinda stuff BEFORE I investigated it."

You still don't except that different claims require different amounts of evidence and that's just too fucking bad you nutter because the rest of us do recognize this. Stop making shitty comparisons and analogies that only work in your whack-a-do brain. Stop your make believe, dishonest, and cowardly evasive bullshit. Then stop fucking using Occam's Razor wrong, either learn how to use it correctly or shut ignorance hole and go talk about something other then your personal obsessions. No one here agrees with your presuppositions, your shitty fucking methods, and your delusional conclusions you tin foil hat wearing InfoWars motherfucker. If you wanted to continue preaching your personal Gospel you should have stayed in the UFO thread and actually defended it instead of running away from the criticism like a lil' theist bitch.
[Image: Paul-Alien-sketch-1.jpg]

TL: DR
Take your meds and stop being a dumb cunt you dumb cunt.

Okay, that was more hilarious than serious.

But let me tell you something. Want to know why I avoid answering some of your posts? It's because of these types of posts. Dude I don't have time to sift through the endless ad hominems to try and locate your points, okay?

Make your posts simple, and to the point. Re-write this and itemize your points. Short and simple.

Well that's a load of utter bullshit. My first several posts were exactly that, I made my points simply and effectively some of them were only a sentence or two. They remained unanswered and unaddressed.
You also have utterly zero room to whine about ad hominems, you were throwing them out left right and center and down reping people with petty little bullshit barbs, and if I can wade through yours and address and counter damn near every point you make with ease you can at least make a fucking effort and try.
Don't have time my ass, I guess it's just a bloody coincidence that every time you responded to my posts ( and you have responded to nearly everyone) the actual points, criticisms, and questions were just conveniently omitted every damn time while you build a bunch of fucking strawmen.

You got several very clean and respectable posts from me, which is more then most woo peddlers can say, I even made a point of declaring my respect for you and increased tolerance of your inane crap due to your rep. You EARNED my disrespect. Repeatedly. So don't try and hide behind the "you're too mean" bullshit Free. You had near a dozen opportunities, and I won't be letting you tap dance around that little fact like a fucking theist.
That ain't how it's gonna work.

Oh and it was written with humorous intent for everyone but you. For you I was dead serious, and I meant every word.

Edit: Oh and don't think I didn't notice that once again you read the post, you quoted the post, you responded to the post and you STILL didn't address a single goddamn point or criticism. No time my ass you dishonest son of a bitch.

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08-12-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 10:32 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 08:47 PM)Free Wrote:  Okay, I spent a few days in Banff and thought I should come back to the forum.

Sorry for my display the other day, but I had a few teeth pulled last week and didn't realize I had a bad infection that needed some antibiotics. Suffice to say, between the pain of nearly having my jaw torn apart by the dentist, the infection, plus demands on me IRL, I was not at my best.

My escape to Banff and the antibiotics did me the world of good.

All neg reps removed.

I will start replying to some posts here.

Somewhat surprised to see you back, so let's talk Sasquatch. I've hiked Banff but didn't see any while there, how about you.

lol no.

Although I would tease my wife by pointing to some treed area and say something like, "Sasquatch!"

I got a few slaps in the head in Banff. Smile

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08-12-2014, 08:46 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2014 10:38 AM by Free.)
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 10:40 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 10:10 PM)Free Wrote:  Often we see examples in law courts of how witnesses can get a defendant convicted.

For example, with just 1 witness, it's a simple matter of "it's his word against mine." Not much can be done in that kind of situation.

But when you have two witnesses saying the same thing, the judge sits up and takes notice. And if you have 3, the judge views the accusations of the witnesses very seriously.

What my point here is, is that the "credibility factor" of credible eyewitness testimony is increased exponentially when you have multiple eyewitnesses of the same event.

Also the chances of multiple eyewitness of the same event being wrong is decreased exponentially.
Think we all been here before. Holy Mother of Tree Bark. Facepalm
Just tried to make an example of that peoples memories can be distorted and things often aren't the way we remember them. This also happens in groups and when they all get to talking about an event the collective story melds from differing perspectives and you'll get inconsistency speaking to a witnesses 1 on 1. It gets even worse when months or even years pass.

Yep, that can happen ... over time. But even then, if you had 10 witnesses the inconsistencies would still be few and far between, and even then, they would need to be identical.

When people believe they are telling the truth about something, their story doesn't change much at all with time. It is those who are lying that leave big holes in their stories.

BTW, I do a lot of work for members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Many are my friends. There's even a sign on my front door from the RCMP. I can't go into detail what I do for them, but trust me ... I know how seriously multiple eyewitnesses are taken.

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08-12-2014, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2014 02:06 PM by Free.)
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
(07-12-2014 11:39 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 09:14 PM)Free Wrote:  Okay, that was more hilarious than serious.

But let me tell you something. Want to know why I avoid answering some of your posts? It's because of these types of posts. Dude I don't have time to sift through the endless ad hominems to try and locate your points, okay?

Make your posts simple, and to the point. Re-write this and itemize your points. Short and simple.

Well that's a load of utter bullshit. My first several posts were exactly that, I made my points simply and effectively some of them were only a sentence or two. They remained unanswered and unaddressed.
You also have utterly zero room to whine about ad hominems, you were throwing them out left right and center and down reping people with petty little bullshit barbs, and if I can wade through yours and address and counter damn near every point you make with ease you can at least make a fucking effort and try.
Don't have time my ass, I guess it's just a bloody coincidence that every time you responded to my posts ( and you have responded to nearly everyone) the actual points, criticisms, and questions were just conveniently omitted every damn time while you build a bunch of fucking strawmen.

You got several very clean and respectable posts from me, which is more then most woo peddlers can say, I even made a point of declaring my respect for you and increased tolerance of your inane crap due to your rep. You EARNED my disrespect. Repeatedly. So don't try and hide behind the "you're too mean" bullshit Free. You had near a dozen opportunities, and I won't be letting you tap dance around that little fact like a fucking theist.
That ain't how it's gonna work.

Oh and it was written with humorous intent for everyone but you. For you I was dead serious, and I meant every word.

Edit: Oh and don't think I didn't notice that once again you read the post, you quoted the post, you responded to the post and you STILL didn't address a single goddamn point or criticism. No time my ass you dishonest son of a bitch.

I earned your respect? So you write insulting posts like that to people you respect, do you?

Who the fuck does that, you disingenuous fool?

So, you write a post to me which is most definitely designed to insult and troll me and get a few laughs from a few people here, and you think I should take it seriously enough to respond to it? Since your intent was to NOT be serious, but rather draw a few chuckles here and there, then dude ... why the fuck would I take you seriously?

Learn where the line is between a serious post and one that can be deemed as being too far off the grid to be taken seriously, okay? Your post was too fucking childish. I can take an insult, but if you go so far with it that any points you make are obscured by the numerous insults, then don't expect me to take you seriously.

I simply won't. That's how I work. Take it or leave it.

If you cannot post something that can resemble even a minute degree of civility and maturity, then perhaps you should just shut the fuck up?

Listen, I know you put a lot of work into those extremely long posts you created in the UFO thread with the expectation of me answering them fully. But dude, some of your posts are so fucking long I can't see the end of them. Not only that, you make accusations against me in those threads but give no links to posts I made that justify your accusations, leaving me to wonder what the fuck you are talking about. I don't have fucking time to spend 3 hours investigating your bullshit claims to see if they have any merit, only to determine that you completely misunderstood me, or failed to see the point.

I have reviewed that thread, and my position remains as it is. On many of my posts you totally missed the point, whether intentionally, or by sheer stupidity, is anybodies guess. But for you to expect me to respond to your many ambiguous accusations is not only unreasonable, but a massive waste of my time. Here is just one example of your excessive ambiguity:

Quote:
Quote:There was no dishonesty applied.

I'm sorry but yes Free there was.
WHERE?

Quote: When I ask you entirely relevant questions, when inform you of the fallacies you are making and then provide examples and demonstrations that you are, when I ask questions that show the double standard you are using in your disproportionate trust in eye witness testimony and you actively go out of your way to avoid addressing this stuff at all, going so far as to selectively edit them out of the quote when you respond to other things, you ARE being deliberately dishonest at worst and at best you are being deliberately evasive.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid694333

One massive fucking run-on sentence! Where/What relevant questions? Where/What fallacies? Where are the fucking links to all your bullshit accusations?

As if that one isn't bad enough, the rest of your fucking post was extremely long and more of the same!

So why the fuck should I spend hours sifting through my previous posts in some fucking effort to figure out which statement that I supposedly made and to which you are referring to? Why the fuck do you think i responded to it with:

Free Wrote:Okay, I will let you have the last word.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid694341

Duh? Get a fucking clue, dipshit.

Learn to be fucking reasonable, less ambiguous, and then maybe I won't look at your fucking posts like one big run-on sentence that is just too fucking annoying to respond to, okay?

Now get over yourself and carry on. Smile

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08-12-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: That Damn Bigfoot Thing
Before I dismantle another one of your hypocritical, diversionary, and lazy posts, whose substance you will conveniently ignore or edit out of your response, I'm gonna wait a few hours and see if you can get a siiiiiiingle person to agree with you. I don't think you have gotten a single like from anyone on a single one of your responses to me... oh but oh wait that's right I forgot it's not cause you're wrong or blatantly hypocritical or your total lack of objectivity on your favorite brand of Woo....it's due to TTAs "inner circle" conspiracy to make you look bad and to upvote me 'cause we are all just tots BFF's.

Right, riiiiiight.. I forgot.

Hobo

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