That Damn UFO Thing
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26-11-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing

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26-11-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
(26-11-2014 02:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  How many bigfoot sightings are there?

Tens of thousands of pictures, video, eyewitnesses?

Quote:How many ghost sightings are there? How many angels?

Tens of thousands of pictures, video, eyewitnesses?

Quote:And more to the point, if there are so damn many of them, why are none of them worth a damn?

Not worth a damn according to who?

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26-11-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
One thing that I have studied about this subject is its history, and with that, historical photographs.

The link below will take you to a site where you can view UFO photographs that date back as far as 1870. Although some are not clear, others are perfectly clear, and fall into the category of "highly probable."

http://old-ufo-photos.latest-ufo-sightin...-1939.html

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26-11-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
(26-11-2014 02:56 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-11-2014 02:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  How many bigfoot sightings are there?

Tens of thousands of pictures, video, eyewitnesses?

Quote:How many ghost sightings are there? How many angels?

Tens of thousands of pictures, video, eyewitnesses?

Indeed.

And how many pre-modern accounts of all manner of exotic and mythological creatures?

"Oh but there's lots of evidence" doesn't make that evidence good evidence. Lots of shit is still shit.

(26-11-2014 02:56 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:And more to the point, if there are so damn many of them, why are none of them worth a damn?

Not worth a damn according to who?

Anyone even remotely credible.

You know there's an insanely huge leap between "UFO" (to wit: unidentified) and "aliens" (ie identified), right?

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26-11-2014, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2014 03:36 PM by Free.)
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
(26-11-2014 03:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(26-11-2014 02:56 PM)Free Wrote:  Tens of thousands of pictures, video, eyewitnesses?


Tens of thousands of pictures, video, eyewitnesses?

Indeed.

Actually, my meaning was to suggest that in relation to the UFO thing, there are NOT tens of thousands of pictures, video, or eyewitnesses.

I apologize for not making this more clear.

How many Big Foot videos do we have? Not many, and even the ones we do have could be manufactured easy enough.

Even pictures of Big Foot are scarce, and again the ones we do have are questionable.

I don't think the Big Foot thing or ghosts/angels et al can even come close to the UFO thing in terms of sheer numbers of videos, photographs, and eyewitnesses.

The link to those old UFO pictures I posted above- when many of those pictures' history have been investigated, and considering the era and public climate at the time in regards to UFOs- provides some very compelling evidence that pushes the slider to "probable."


Quote:"Oh but there's lots of evidence" doesn't make that evidence good evidence. Lots of shit is still shit.

Yet, there IS lots of good evidence.

(26-11-2014 02:56 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:[quote]Not worth a damn according to who?

Anyone even remotely credible.

Even the credible are far from infallible.

Quote:You know there's an insanely huge leap between "UFO" (to wit: unidentified) and "aliens" (ie identified), right?

Of course!

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26-11-2014, 03:34 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-11-2014 03:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Indeed.

Actually, my meaning was to suggest that in relation to the UFO thing, there are NOT tens of thousands of pictures, video, or eyewitnesses.

I apologize for not making this more clear.

How many Big Foot videos do we have? Not many, and even the ones we do have could be manufactured easy enough.

Even pictures of Big Foot are scarce, and again the ones we do have are questionable.

I don't think the Big Foot thing or ghosts/angels et al can even come close to the UFO thing in terms of sheer numbers of videos, photographs, and pictures.

The link to those old UFO pictures I posted below- when many of those pictures' history have been investigated, and considering the era and public climate at the time in regards to UFOs- provides some very compelling evidence that pushes the slider to "probable."

But it takes a lot more than that to be even remotely compelling.
(also it would take evidence that is not obviously counterfeit)

Are there things that we can't say for sure what they are? Yes. No shit. So what?

(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:"Oh but there's lots of evidence" doesn't make that evidence good evidence. Lots of shit is still shit.

Yet, there IS lots of good evidence.

I would strongly disagree.

Or do you think there's good "evidence" for ghosts?

(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-11-2014 02:56 PM)Free Wrote:  Anyone even remotely credible.

Even the credible are far from infallible.

Ah, yes - the old, "well, you can't prove it absolutely wrong" bit. Just so - but that isn't where the burden of proof lies.

(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:You know there's an insanely huge leap between "UFO" (to wit: unidentified) and "aliens" (ie identified), right?

Of course!

How, then, do you make that leap?

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26-11-2014, 03:51 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
(26-11-2014 03:34 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  Actually, my meaning was to suggest that in relation to the UFO thing, there are NOT tens of thousands of pictures, video, or eyewitnesses.

I apologize for not making this more clear.

How many Big Foot videos do we have? Not many, and even the ones we do have could be manufactured easy enough.

Even pictures of Big Foot are scarce, and again the ones we do have are questionable.

I don't think the Big Foot thing or ghosts/angels et al can even come close to the UFO thing in terms of sheer numbers of videos, photographs, and pictures.

The link to those old UFO pictures I posted below- when many of those pictures' history have been investigated, and considering the era and public climate at the time in regards to UFOs- provides some very compelling evidence that pushes the slider to "probable."

But it takes a lot more than that to be even remotely compelling.
(also it would take evidence that is not obviously counterfeit)

No it does not take a lot more than that to be compelling. It may take more than that to be probable, but not compelling.

Agreed on the obvious counterfeit issue. However, some old photographs have been deemed authentic. They do indeed show objects that are aerial, metallic in appearance, a describable shape, and unidentifiable as far as man made is concerned.


Quote:Are there things that we can't say for sure what they are? Yes. No shit. So what?

Agreed. So what? If we cannot say for sure what they are, then sometimes it's a matter of investigating what they are not.

Quote:
(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  Yet, there IS lots of good evidence.

I would strongly disagree.

It's okay to disagree.

Quote:Or do you think there's good "evidence" for ghosts?

There's simply not enough evidence for ghosts period. Besides, even if there was, it doesn't mean they are actually ghosts. This is no different than seeing a UFO, but saying it doesn't mean there are aliens.

Quote:
(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  Even the credible are far from infallible.

Ah, yes - the old, "well, you can't prove it absolutely wrong" bit. Just so - but that isn't where the burden of proof lies.

The proof is always in the available evidence. Credible people can make mistakes, which can include eyewitnesses.

Quote:
(26-11-2014 03:27 PM)Free Wrote:  Of course!

How, then, do you make that leap?

You don't make that leap and claim it to be factual, but you can indeed make that leap in the form of a well informed opinion.

Could still be wrong of course, but at least if you were wrong you would still have based your opinion on the available evidence.

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26-11-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
If you think a faint, tiny scratch in a ninety-year old photograph counts as "evidence"... you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone else of that.

(26-11-2014 03:51 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Are there things that we can't say for sure what they are? Yes. No shit. So what?

Agreed. So what? If we cannot say for sure what they are, then sometimes it's a matter of investigating what they are not.

And what they are not is aliens.

There is literally nothing whatsoever intrinsic to the evidence to suggest that - even if we are so overly generous as to call it "evidence".

(26-11-2014 03:51 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Ah, yes - the old, "well, you can't prove it absolutely wrong" bit. Just so - but that isn't where the burden of proof lies.

The proof is always in the available evidence. Credible people can make mistakes, which can include eyewitnesses.

And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

"I once saw a thing and I don't know what it was" is not an extraordinary claim.

"It was an alien/ghost/Elvis riding a bigfoot" is an extraordinary claim.

(26-11-2014 03:51 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:How, then, do you make that leap?

You don't make that leap and claim it to be factual, but you can indeed make that leap in the form of a well informed opinion.

Could still be wrong of course, but at least if you were wrong you would still have based your opinion on the available evidence.

That doesn't answer my question, champ.

How do you make the leap to claiming it's even possible? How do you make the leap to concluding it's likely?

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26-11-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
I don't understand why you're jumping down this guys neck over this.

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26-11-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: That Damn UFO Thing
(26-11-2014 05:41 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I don't understand why you're jumping down this guys neck over this.

Neither do I, actually. Consider

I respect him, but for some reason lately his posts towards me have been ... viperous.

I have meant no ill will towards him, and hopefully things will improve.

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