That mother fucking Jesus!
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08-09-2012, 09:37 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2012 09:03 PM by Diablo666.)
That mother fucking Jesus!
We constantly see people thanking god when they win, but you never see them pass blame when they lose. No one ever says "the game was in the bag, but that mother fucking Jesus caused me to miss the block."

So, I have to ask how do religious people compartmentalize the ideas that god can help them win, but not cause them to lose.

Also, isn't god supposed to be all powerful and all knowing? Doesn't that mean that this is all already predetermined? So what are you thanking him for? The decision was made long long long ago, before you was ever a thought. That's like thanking your parents for not using a condom 30 years ago.

Also, why would such a being care about your actions? Especially for something as trivial as a game? How insecure is god that he needs us to pray to him? Its like me worrying about what the ants in my backyard think of me.

Also, just how egotistical are you to think that he cares enough about you to help you win the game? Of all the problems in the world, how can you actually think the all mighty stopped to help you win a game?

This whole thing kind of reminds me of that movie "Groundhogs day". The main character of the movie works as a news anchor, and is essentially a douche bag. Yet, God, in his infinite wisdom lets him redo the day over and over until he scores the new hot chick that joined his news team. Get that? He looped the whole universe, so this jackass, who didn't deserve shit, could BANG THE NEW GIRL! Makes perfect sense right? But that's how egotistical these loons are.


And for that matter, if God already knows what will happen, as he caused it, then free will does not exist. Therefore, sin does not exist.
Its like that episode of Futurama where Bender, a robot, could not be convicted of a crime as he was actions were all part of a program. He had no free will, and could therefore not make any decisions, thus could not make the decision to commit a crime.
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08-09-2012, 11:56 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
Christian Fundamentalists: It doesn't have to make sense, and when challenged, they do this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdqoIoxwTnY

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Credit to Atothetheist
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09-09-2012, 07:15 AM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
(08-09-2012 09:37 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  We constantly see people thanking god when they win, but you never see them pass blame when they lose. No one ever says "the game was in the bag, but that mother fucking Jesus caused me to miss the block."

So, I have to ask how do religious people departmentalize the ideas that god can help them win, but not cause them to lose.

Also, isn't god supposed to be all powerful and all knowing? Doesn't that mean that this is all already predetermined? So what are you thanking him for? The decision was made long long long ago, before you was ever a thought. That's like thanking your parents for not using a condom 30 years ago.

Also, why would such a being care about your actions? Especially for something as trivial as a game? How insecure is god that he needs us to pray to him? Its like me worrying about what the ants in my backyard think of me.

Also, just how egotistical are you to think that he cares enough about you to help you win the game? Of all the problems in the world, how can you actually think the all mighty stopped to help you win a game?

This whole thing kind of reminds me of that movie "Groundhogs day". The main character of the movie works as a news anchor, is essentially a douche bag. Yet, God, in his infinite wisdom lets him redo the day over and over until he scores the new hot chick that joined his news team. Get that? He looped the whole universe, so this guy could BANG THE NEW GIRL! Makes perfect sense right? But that's how egotistical these loons are.


And for that matter, if God already knows what will happen, as he caused it, then free will does not exist. Therefore, sin does not exist.
Its like that episode of Futurama where Bender, a robot, could not be convicted of a crime as he was actions were all part of a program. He had no free will, and could therefore not make any decisions, thus could not make the decision to commit a crime.

So I take it you're getting ready for the Jets game this afternoon.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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09-09-2012, 09:07 AM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
Hey, Diablo.

They don't compartmentalise it. They believe that it was God's will, win or lose. If they win, then they thank God. If they lose, they console themselves with the notion that God has a plan for them and this was just his will being done. In essence, they're way better sportsmen than you're giving them credit for Cool

And as for Groundhog Day. Wow. You totally missed the point on that one. It's a film about a selfish man who learns to be selfless. He allows love into his life and his initial lustful desire to "bang the new girl" falls to the way side as his new ability to love eventually allows her to love him back, thus breaking his curse. Groundhog Day is used by screenwriters the world over as an example of how to properly use theme in dramatic structure.

As for free will, I disagree with your premise but that's another argument.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-09-2012, 01:06 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
I agree with Matt on everything...except free will. With the assumption that there is a God, and it is an omniscient and omnipotent creator of the universe then the only logical conclusion is that everything is predetermined following a linear understanding of time, and in any case free-will is nothing more than a fictitious circumstance that can never exist, like a perpetual motion device.

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09-09-2012, 01:52 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
Hey, Dark Light.

Word.

As for free will, I won't start a new debate here. But, if you are so inclined, you can see my thoughts on the matter in this other thread here and here.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-09-2012, 02:50 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
(09-09-2012 01:52 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Dark Light.

Word.

As for free will, I won't start a new debate here. But, if you are so inclined, you can see my thoughts on the matter in this other thread here and here.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

I'm not trying to divert the topic, but just so I am clear here you subscribe to the idea of time, all of it (whatever that means, kind of makes my brain explode) happening simultaneously. I am familiar with this concept (obviously, otherwise I would not have specified). My question to you is, do you agree that even in simultaneous time free-will is an "illusion". Furthermore, do you believe that there was a "time" before time existed, something before time existed? I have also heard of people postulating this but I find it difficult to grasp. If "something" was there before time, you could argue that that something is God, or where God came from, but in my opinion is (through my admitted limited understanding of this concept) is that a God theory still only (unnecessarily) removes the question further from the "truth" (ie if there is a God how did it come to exist).

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09-09-2012, 03:32 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
Hey, Dark Light.

Quote:...you subscribe to the idea of time, all of it (whatever that means, kind of makes my brain explode) happening simultaneously.

Yes. Existing though, I don't know that happening is apt. Although the credit for the idea goes to Albert Einstein.

Quote:My question to you is, do you agree that even in simultaneous time free-will is an "illusion".

No I do not. Because simultaneous time (the idea that all of time exists just as all of space exists) is a very different argument than causality (that one thing leads inexorably to the next, making the universe a giant game of dominoes) and of the scripted universe (that God prescribed every action, making existence more of a painting than anything else).

Quote:Furthermore, do you believe that there was a "time" before time existed, something before time existed?

I have no idea. I do know that time is a property of space-time and that it loses it's meaning even WITHIN our universe; as one approaches a singularity. If something does exist outside of space-time, assuming that exist is a concept that applies, then I have no reason to assume that it has anything to do with time. I have trouble grasping the idea that absolutely nothing existed at some point just as much as I have trouble grasping the idea that the universe is either finite or infinite, that if it's finite then there is something either not universe or other, that if it's infinite then there is nothing but universe and what the fuck does that mean... really, any concept of "something" beyond space-time, is pretty incomprehensible to me.

Quote:If "something" was there before time, you could argue that that something is God, or where God came from...

One could very easily make that argument.

Quote:...but in my opinion is (through my admitted limited understanding of this concept) is that a God theory still only (unnecessarily) removes the question further from the "truth" (ie if there is a God how did it come to exist).

I'm not sure I fully grasp what you mean here.

I assume that if there is something "beyond" space time, or beyond the laws of the natural universe, I will not likely comprehend it because I am bound by my universe and what makes sense within it.

I think you may be talking about infinite regress, which to me only makes sense if time is always linear, within this universe and without. I have no reason to assume that and in fact, I assume that time likely behaves differently (if at all) outside of space-time.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-09-2012, 04:00 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!



"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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09-09-2012, 08:28 PM
RE: That mother fucking Jesus!
(09-09-2012 03:32 PM)Ghost Wrote:  .

Quote:No I do not. Because simultaneous time (the idea that all of time exists just as all of space exists) is a very different argument than causality (that one thing leads inexorably to the next, making the universe a giant game of dominoes) and of the scripted universe (that God prescribed every action, making existence more of a painting than anything else).



Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

I am still unclear here. Causality and Scripted (As per your examples) seem to be one and the same in principle to me. If the aforementioned almighty God created our universe it is only a matter of perspective as to whether causality or a scripted universe exists. If I believe in a simultaneous time concept as you do then (from my perspective) there is a scripted universe, it is the only logical conclusion I can come to. In a 'scripted' universe there is still no free will. If you can provide your reasoning maybe you could change my mind but I am currently incapable
of perceiving how your scenario for reality grants free will.

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