That's Not Evidence
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14-08-2015, 08:29 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(13-08-2015 07:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 06:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It is, rather, falsifiable... so long as God is clearly defined.

Failing to do so - as per Mathilda's earlier post - is a deliberate tactic of the dishonest.
That makes no sense. Could you please rephrase? Thank you.

There is nothing complicated in the idea.

If you cannot coherently define God, then you cannot apply reason to the concept. More to the point, you cannot even clearly communicate it.

Traditional theistic God claims are dressed up very nicely in human (or naively superhuman) attributes, but these are invariably mutually contradictory. The apologist's recourse is to declare them to be instead a very special kind of true - the kind of true that doesn't have to be true in the real world, because it's beyond our understanding. Which is a nice self-demonstrating failure at evasion, since it is fundamentally meaningless to apply human characteristics to an unknowable phenomenon. And yet religions do this all the time - because most believers are not sophisticated enough to see the problem. But then, the real purpose of the epithets and divine sloganeering is just so many shibboleths and identity-building anyway.

If any answer to the question "what is God?" boils down to "fundamentally unknowable, except for my magical inarticulate feelings", it is not an answer.

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14-08-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
God is existence. People give him human characteristics because that's how they can relate to it. All scientific theories of the physical realm fall apart whenever you back into quantum mechanics. Therefore God does not have to be explained in terms that you understand seeing as how he was around before any of the laws of physics. Thank you.
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14-08-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 08:37 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  God is existence. People give him human characteristics because that's how they can relate to it. All scientific theories of the physical realm fall apart whenever you back into quantum mechanics. Therefore God does not have to be explained in terms that you understand seeing as how he was around before any of the laws of physics. Thank you.

That is not coherent. Thank you [for being a self-demonstrating article].

If God is existence than to say that God exists is to affirm that existence exists. Do you understand this?
(if A = B and B = C, what is the relationship between A and C?)

"Existence exists" is not a statement from which anything meaningful may be drawn. Feel free to continue to assert it, but be well aware that it actually argues against scripture, prayer, ritual, or any other primate cult trappings.

It assuredly does not, for example, follow from "existence exists" that existence is male. Not that that seems to stop you...

The only theories that "fall apart" in describing quantum mechanics are classical theories. Nor does this make them "wrong"; Newtonian mechanics more than suffice to describe the arc of a football, notwithstanding their "falling apart" if attempting to describe the collapse of stars.

Quantum mechanics is a "scientific theory of the physical realm". It's charmingly incoherent to say that scientific theories of the physical realm falls apart when backing into a scientific theory of the physical realm. I don't think you understand what you're saying.
(hell, I don't think you even understand the transitive property...)

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14-08-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 08:57 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 08:37 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  God is existence. People give him human characteristics because that's how they can relate to it. All scientific theories of the physical realm fall apart whenever you back into quantum mechanics. Therefore God does not have to be explained in terms that you understand seeing as how he was around before any of the laws of physics. Thank you.

That is not coherent. Thank you [for being a self-demonstrating article].

If God is existence than to say that God exists is to affirm that existence exists. Do you understand this?
(if A = B and B = C, what is the relationship between A and C?)

"Existence exists" is not a statement from which anything meaningful may be drawn. Feel free to continue to assert it, but be well aware that it actually argues against scripture, prayer, ritual, or any other primate cult trappings.

It assuredly does not, for example, follow from "existence exists" that existence is male. Not that that seems to stop you...

The only theories that "fall apart" in describing quantum mechanics are classical theories. Nor does this make them "wrong"; Newtonian mechanics more than suffice to describe the arc of a football, notwithstanding their "falling apart" if attempting to describe the collapse of stars.

Quantum mechanics is a "scientific theory of the physical realm". It's charmingly incoherent to say that scientific theories of the physical realm falls apart when backing into a scientific theory of the physical realm. I don't think you understand what you're saying.
(hell, I don't think you even understand the transitive property...)

. All I am saying is it quantum mechanics or the theory thereof explains all existence miraculousness God and everything else. Thank you.
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14-08-2015, 09:13 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 07:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 06:31 PM)Free Wrote:  "God exists, so prove he doesn't."

That is an unfalsifiable claim.

It's not an unfalsifiable claim.

If you can prove physicalism is true, than you've falsified nearly every or every version of God imaginable.

If the picture of reality painted by "The Atheist Guide to Reality" is true, it would leave no gaps for God to fill.

...yes?

I mean, the claim of God... the very idea of God... in any sense (in Christianity) is that of metaphysical. God isn't physical and that claim is never made. Since God isn't physical, any claim to prove or disprove his physical existence is unfalsifiable.

It is literally impossible to prove/disprove the existence of God through empirical evidence.

I can't figure out why this is so hard to understand or accept.

As I've said numerous times, the very core of Christian belief is based on believing something that cannot be proved through physical means. This concept is faith, and God presents it to His beloved as a gift in order to know Him.

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14-08-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 09:13 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 07:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's not an unfalsifiable claim.

If you can prove physicalism is true, than you've falsified nearly every or every version of God imaginable.

If the picture of reality painted by "The Atheist Guide to Reality" is true, it would leave no gaps for God to fill.

...yes?

I mean, the claim of God... the very idea of God... in any sense (in Christianity) is that of metaphysical. God isn't physical and that claim is never made. Since God isn't physical, any claim to prove or disprove his physical existence is unfalsifiable.

It is literally impossible to prove/disprove the existence of God through empirical evidence.

I can't figure out why this is so hard to understand or accept.

As I've said numerous times, the very core of Christian belief is based on believing something that cannot be proved through physical means. This concept is faith, and God presents it to His beloved as a gift in order to know Him.

KC. The problem is that if the universe had been organised by an individual, it would be apparent.

Going back to a god gives you the problem of the first cause. If all things must be created by a creator, who created god? Explain to me where god came from please. Just how is that god has always existed?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-08-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 09:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  . All I am saying is it quantum mechanics or the theory thereof explains all existence miraculousness God and everything else. Thank you.

Not having a go at you here, but you do not come across as a well educated person who understands the first thing about quantum mechanics.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-08-2015, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2015 09:36 AM by Free.)
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 09:25 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 09:13 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...yes?

I mean, the claim of God... the very idea of God... in any sense (in Christianity) is that of metaphysical. God isn't physical and that claim is never made. Since God isn't physical, any claim to prove or disprove his physical existence is unfalsifiable.

It is literally impossible to prove/disprove the existence of God through empirical evidence.

I can't figure out why this is so hard to understand or accept.

As I've said numerous times, the very core of Christian belief is based on believing something that cannot be proved through physical means. This concept is faith, and God presents it to His beloved as a gift in order to know Him.

KC. The problem is that if the universe had been organised by an individual, it would be apparent.

Going back to a god gives you the problem of the first cause. If all things must be created by a creator, who created god? Explain to me where god came from please. Just how is that god has always existed?

Christians and other faiths believe that God has always existed outside of our perceived reality and is regarded as a supernatural being.

Can something be eternal? Well, we can certainly demonstrate it conceptually by simply counting numbers. We could count an infinite amount of numbers, and because we could count an infinite amount of numbers, we could therefore count them eternally.

Infinity and eternity are two sides of the same coin. We cannot have one without the other.

We could view the universe in the same manner, and theorize that it is infinite and eternal. But the difference between the universe and God is that the universe is not regarded as a supernatural entity, and is observable.

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14-08-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 09:25 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 09:13 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...yes?

I mean, the claim of God... the very idea of God... in any sense (in Christianity) is that of metaphysical. God isn't physical and that claim is never made. Since God isn't physical, any claim to prove or disprove his physical existence is unfalsifiable.

It is literally impossible to prove/disprove the existence of God through empirical evidence.

I can't figure out why this is so hard to understand or accept.

As I've said numerous times, the very core of Christian belief is based on believing something that cannot be proved through physical means. This concept is faith, and God presents it to His beloved as a gift in order to know Him.

KC. The problem is that if the universe had been organised by an individual, it would be apparent.

Going back to a god gives you the problem of the first cause. If all things must be created by a creator, who created god? Explain to me where god came from please. Just how is that god has always existed?

I'm well aware of this problem. And again, I have no great explanation for it besides "He's always been here". That though, again, is based on faith; the cornerstone of the belief.

You will never hear me say that I have solid evidence and/or a convincing argument for where God came from. I'm not here to convince anyone; nor do I care to. I, myself, am convinced. According to my belief, no one CAN be convinced of God if God hasn't first acted upon them.

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14-08-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: That's Not Evidence
(14-08-2015 09:28 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 09:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  . All I am saying is it quantum mechanics or the theory thereof explains all existence miraculousness God and everything else. Thank you.

Not having a go at you here, but you do not come across as a well educated person who understands the first thing about quantum mechanics.
All existence is made up of a similar material. All of this material is not physical and is a vibration these vibrations are able to fluctuate in strength and harmony making literally anything possible. Thank you
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