The 9/11 "mosque"
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04-09-2010, 04:58 AM
 
The 9/11 "mosque"
Well...shit.

AFN (Armed Forces Network) just reported today over the radio that one of the people contributing to the funding of the Cordoba center in Manhattan has ties to Hamas.

What do you guys think this is going to do to the project?

What do you guys think OF the project?

I had written a pretty inflammatory post about it over on my site, but I've closed comments there because two individuals had started a fight. People seem to be pretty polarized on this subject, and I am curious to see what a group of Atheists and Agnostics (and our lone Christian) have to say about the whole topic.

ETA: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...AD9I0NU9O0
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04-09-2010, 05:19 AM
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
(04-09-2010 04:58 AM)Soldieringon Wrote:  Well...shit.

AFN (Armed Forces Network) just reported today over the radio that one of the people contributing to the funding of the Cordoba center in Manhattan has ties to Hamas.

What do you guys think this is going to do to the project?

What do you guys think OF the project?

I had written a pretty inflammatory post about it over on my site, but I've closed comments there because two individuals had started a fight. People seem to be pretty polarized on this subject, and I am curious to see what a group of Atheists and Agnostics (and our lone Christian) have to say about the whole topic.

ETA: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...AD9I0NU9O0

If you've seen the amazing atheists video on this responding to Pat Condell than you'll know what my opinion is.
this mosque has the right to exist.
plus it will let the YEC's and fundamentalists have someone just as stupid as they are to ramble back and forth.
anyone seen some of the Islam propaganda videos stating the earth is flat and the sun revolves around us?
I don't know how common that stuff is in Islam so I'm not going to try and form an overall opinion about it.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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04-09-2010, 06:41 AM
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
We actually have another thread on the issue, probably in the "older threads" area. I think the general consensus is that no one here is really in favor of any more houses of worship being built but they have just as much right to build it as any other group would and it should be allowed.

Regarding this Hamas connection, I just did a quick Google search on it and found a link here. I'd say the jury is still out on this, but one guy does not taint the entire project in my mind.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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04-09-2010, 06:46 AM
 
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
(04-09-2010 06:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  We actually have another thread on the issue, probably in the "older threads" area. I think the general consensus is that no one here is really in favor of any more houses of worship being built but they have just as much right to build it as any other group would and it should be allowed.

Regarding this Hamas connection, I just did a quick Google search on it and found a link here. I'd say the jury is still out on this, but one guy does not taint the entire project in my mind.

And one guy doesn't poison the water for me either, but when the words Hamas, Mosque, New York and 9/11 get thrown into a news story about the building in their backyard, people get nervous. I think that this will spur more rallies and that the project will be cancelled.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I think that if they want to oppose something, it should be Catholic childcare centers. i'd picket those.
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04-09-2010, 06:51 AM
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
Quote:but when the words Hamas, Mosque, New York and 9/11 get thrown into a news story about the building in their backyard, people get nervous.

I strongly suspect that is exactly why the word Hamas has been thrown out. Without knowing anything about this no revelation at all, my gut reaction is that something about the story isn't true or greatly exaggerated. Either his involvement with the project or his involvement with Hamas but just based on how everything has gone on this story I'd be honestly surprised if the story as reported this morning is the same story we are talking about (assuming we are talking about it all) in 2 weeks.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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04-09-2010, 06:56 AM
 
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
(04-09-2010 06:51 AM)BnW Wrote:  
Quote:but when the words Hamas, Mosque, New York and 9/11 get thrown into a news story about the building in their backyard, people get nervous.

I strongly suspect that is exactly why the word Hamas has been thrown out. Without knowing anything about this no revelation at all, my gut reaction is that something about the story isn't true or greatly exaggerated. Either his involvement with the project or his involvement with Hamas but just based on how everything has gone on this story I'd be honestly surprised if the story as reported this morning is the same story we are talking about (assuming we are talking about it all) in 2 weeks.

I agree, I think it boils down to fear mongering.
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04-09-2010, 07:10 AM
 
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
There can be no doubt that the muslims have the right to build this mosque/community center - that's a non-issue. If the moderate muslims indeed have as a goal the healing of the divide between muslims and the other monotheistic faiths, then this project is not the way to do it. The whole business has widened that division, not bridged it.
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04-09-2010, 07:15 AM
 
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
(04-09-2010 07:10 AM)2buckchuck Wrote:  There can be no doubt that the muslims have the right to build this mosque/community center - that's a non-issue. If the moderate muslims indeed have as a goal the healing of the divide between muslims and the other monotheistic faiths, then this project is not the way to do it. The whole business has widened that division, not bridged it.

I'm of two minds on the whole subject. I mean, I hate fanatical Muslims for very personal reasons, but I am compelled by my personal beliefs to still want to defend their right to a building, regardless of its location.

Part of me wants to tell them that they can have their damn building, no matter how poor in taste the concept is...

and part of me wants to tell them to go fuck themselves and to take their entire bronze age belief system back to where it came from.
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04-09-2010, 07:53 AM
 
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
Soldieringon,

Yes, that's exactly my point - they have the right to build this project, but if their intentions are to heal the conflict, the proposed "mosque" project just isn't going to accomplish that. If their actual intentions are as some have stated, they should spend their time and money elsewhere. Once the media seized on it, including the right-wing pundits at Faux "news", the opportunity for any intended healing was lost. The terrorists have succeeded in, among other things, raising doubts in the minds of many Americans about the intentions of muslims, in general. I have no wish to see any religious agenda advanced, but the Bill of Rights means everyone, including muslims, has the right to practice their faith - insofar as it doesn't violate the law or anyone else's rights, anyway.
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04-09-2010, 08:19 AM
 
RE: The 9/11 "mosque"
My response in the other thread-

I think "people" are losing their shit because they are just plain stupid, and have been manipulated by the TV "news" propaganda networks and politicians.

First of all, I believe this is a completely local issue. Why Obama or any national politician had to get involved is beyond me. The development and approval process for this mosque (actually a community center) had began a year ago or so, and it probably stayed local until some right wing hotshot found out about it and realized he had a golden political opportunity.

People don't understand that Muslims died in 9/11. In the US, 9/11 is viewed like some sacred event. It is so propped up and memorialized, that it takes on a religious significance. And since the hijackers were Islamic, and the majority of Americans are Christians, the event is seen generally as an Islamic vs Christian battle. Building the mosque would make Christians feel insecure, even though the majority of people who actually live in the area don't care or support it.

Mosque building is opposed everywhere in America, especially after 9/11. However, since these are local issues, they usually only gain attention in the local area. It is just that the location of this mosque (which may well be a coincidence) is a great political opportunity to exploit, and thus is made headlines on all propaganda networks so people "lose their shit."

Note that I do have to make the concession that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and cannot be associated with terrorists. However, I am not saying that Islam is a peaceful religion. Those who practice it may be peaceful, but if it can be used to justify killing, or initiate killing (which is very easy if you simply read it), then I do not consider the religion itself to be a peaceful one.

Also, watch -http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xek2qp_the-daily-show-the-parent-company-t_news

Their website-
http://park51.org.s105994.gridserver.com/vision.htm

Honestly, this is a non-issue in my opinion. Don't feed the right-wing trolls.
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