The Amazing Atheist...
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27-07-2013, 05:34 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 04:51 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 04:39 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  The person makes no difference in a debate, therefore your position is void. It is not a personal debate where two people debate each other, they debate each others IDEAS and IDEOLOGIES. Neither of these things could even be susceptible to personal attacks. When Hitchens says, "This is nonsense. It can’t be believed by a thinking person," he is talking about the IDEAS the person holds not the persons characteristics, therefore, no ad hominem applies. Nice try. Hitchens made the same, irrefutable argument most of the time because it didn't matter who sat across from him, whether it be a Christian, Muslim, Mormon, or Calvinist..... religion is religion and it is all bullshit.

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The top four are ones Hitchens and the great orators use regularly, barely ever hear the bottom ones so you're completely wrong.

You can call TJ whatever you like it doesn't advance your argument even an inch. TJ is not immature, overly-aggressive, but he surely is apathetic and so am I regarding religious belief. Just because you want to respect them doesn't mean we have to.


Abrasive personalities cause heated discussion and sometimes arguments, but you know what? None of those things hurt anyone. When adults look past their feeble feelings and actually get down to the issue at hand is when things actually gets figured out, or at least you get an advanced argument which can be built upon, thus moving things forward. Feelings are for children in the school yard, not at the debate table as reasonable adults. Drinking Beverage

I feel sorry for you, not being able to watch heated discussions with amazing flare on both sides must make your YouTube experience very, very boring. Tongue

Actually, TJ quite consistently attacks specific people and their character within his videos. A face-to-face debate is not required to attack a person, this forum is evidence of that.

It is also quite easy to offend someone with an abrasive personality, especially when religion is so entirely personal for the majority of people. Again, you don't seem to have much experience at all in debating with people. I feel incredibly sorry for you, because you cannot seem to take part in an intellectual debate. If you want to be like Hitchens, you are a very long ways away.

Quote:It is also quite easy to offend someone with an abrasive personality, especially when religion is so entirely personal for the majority of people.

That's exactly the kind of thing that makes no difference to me, whether a religious person gets offended in a debate. I couldn't care less how personal it is to them, because I think all of it is crap and they should feel bad for supporting it. Btw, how does me having experience debating make any difference here? When I do debate someone one day I will strive to be like my role models Hitchens and TJ, everything before then is just a learning experience.

P.S.- I don't care your opinion of me or my similarity to Mr. Hitchens, just refute my ideas and leave me out of it. Btw, isn't the whole deal about my experience and your appeal to me and Hitchens one of your ad hominems, attacking my characteristics and not my ideas? LOL Thumbsup

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27-07-2013, 05:58 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
The Amazing Asshole whut?



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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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27-07-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 05:34 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
Quote:It is also quite easy to offend someone with an abrasive personality, especially when religion is so entirely personal for the majority of people.

That's exactly the kind of thing that makes no difference to me, whether a religious person gets offended in a debate. I couldn't care less how personal it is to them, because I think all of it is crap and they should feel bad for supporting it. Btw, how does me having experience debating make any difference here? When I do debate someone one day I will strive to be like my role models Hitchens and TJ, everything before then is just a learning experience.

P.S.- I don't care your opinion of me or my similarity to Mr. Hitchens, just refute my ideas and leave me out of it. Btw, isn't the whole deal about my experience and your appeal to me and Hitchens one of your ad hominems, attacking my characteristics and not my ideas? LOL Thumbsup

Oh, so you can't handle it when I attack your character? But you love TJ so much, I figured you would appreciate it. You have done nothing to refute what I have said. You do not convince your audience by going out of your way to offend them, and the fact that you have no empathy for your opponent shows just how inexperienced you are. If you participated in a serious debate now, you would fail miserably.

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27-07-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 06:04 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 05:34 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  That's exactly the kind of thing that makes no difference to me, whether a religious person gets offended in a debate. I couldn't care less how personal it is to them, because I think all of it is crap and they should feel bad for supporting it. Btw, how does me having experience debating make any difference here? When I do debate someone one day I will strive to be like my role models Hitchens and TJ, everything before then is just a learning experience.

P.S.- I don't care your opinion of me or my similarity to Mr. Hitchens, just refute my ideas and leave me out of it. Btw, isn't the whole deal about my experience and your appeal to me and Hitchens one of your ad hominems, attacking my characteristics and not my ideas? LOL Thumbsup

Oh, so you can't handle it when I attack your character? But you love TJ so much, I figured you would appreciate it. You have done nothing to refute what I have said. You do not convince your audience by going out of your way to offend them, and the fact that you have no empathy for your opponent shows just how inexperienced you are. If you participated in a serious debate now, you would fail miserably.

Would you two like to take this to the boxing ring? It's starting to look like match between you two. It was made for these events after all.

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27-07-2013, 06:15 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 06:04 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 05:34 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  That's exactly the kind of thing that makes no difference to me, whether a religious person gets offended in a debate. I couldn't care less how personal it is to them, because I think all of it is crap and they should feel bad for supporting it. Btw, how does me having experience debating make any difference here? When I do debate someone one day I will strive to be like my role models Hitchens and TJ, everything before then is just a learning experience.

P.S.- I don't care your opinion of me or my similarity to Mr. Hitchens, just refute my ideas and leave me out of it. Btw, isn't the whole deal about my experience and your appeal to me and Hitchens one of your ad hominems, attacking my characteristics and not my ideas? LOL Thumbsup

Oh, so you can't handle it when I attack your character? But you love TJ so much, I figured you would appreciate it. You have done nothing to refute what I have said. You do not convince your audience by going out of your way to offend them, and the fact that you have no empathy for your opponent shows just how inexperienced you are. If you participated in a serious debate now, you would fail miserably.

I absolutely love how you're putting in hypothetical situations and trying to offend me, which are so weak I don't even count them as worth considering. Yes I can handle everything you could possible say about my character because unlike the hypocritical thing to do, I have left my feelings at the door as I said should be done when discussing things with other people.

Now that we got that out of the way, TJ does rip into people and I absolutely love it. Look at his latest video, I laughed so hard my stomach hurt, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isl2SnRDb5s watch the whole thing.

I have refuted everything you have said the best I can since of course, this is an opinion based argument.... I do not go out of my way to offend people I agree with you, and I have no empathy for people that support religious belief so just get over it. Even if I was experienced I would not pander to those people when their feelings got hurt. And of course you round it off again with another ad hominem that you so perfectly time in for some unknown reason.

P.S.- You sound a little bit mad, and I love it Tongue

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27-07-2013, 06:31 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 06:15 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  I absolutely love how you're putting in hypothetical situations and trying to offend me, which are so weak I don't even count them as worth considering. Yes I can handle everything you could possible say about my character because unlike the hypocritical thing to do, I have left my feelings at the door as I said should be done when discussing things with other people.

Now that we got that out of the way, TJ does rip into people and I absolutely love it. Look at his latest video, I laughed so hard my stomach hurt, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isl2SnRDb5s watch the whole thing.

I have refuted everything you have said the best I can since of course, this is an opinion based argument.... I do not go out of my way to offend people I agree with you, and I have no empathy for people that support religious belief so just get over it. Even if I was experienced I would not pander to those people when their feelings got hurt. And of course you round it off again with another ad hominem that you so perfectly time in for some unknown reason.

P.S.- You sound a little bit mad, and I love it Tongue

If you can handle everything I say about your character, then why do you feel so compelled to base all of your rhetoric after your petty emotions? It is pretty blatantly obvious that you have an underlying contempt for many people here. So much, in fact, that you make yourself look like a complete moron by assuming what people's beliefs are, and then attacking them for it.

You haven't refuted anything I have said. It is demonstrable with basic psychology that, when a person is placed on the defense as a result of an insult, the individual will not be convinced by you. That is fact, not opinion. I never said that you couldn't like him for what he is. A dick. I am simply saying that he is not an effective speaker.

You think I am mad? EA, it takes a lot of shit to make me angry. I am simply astounded by how stupid you are being right now.

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27-07-2013, 06:42 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
To refute something doesn't mean that the opposition needs to be convinced. Opinions cannot be refuted, only facts can refute claims. I couldn't care less if I convinced you of anything. You can have any opinion you like about TJ, and anything else for that matter, I just don't have to agree.

I have a contempt for religious ideology not any people on here, as of yet.

You can whine about insults all day if you like, it makes no difference to me, all I see is an angry boy yelling and screaming about hurt feelings.

Your claim that I assume your beliefs is idiotic. You say things that I interpret and establish a position of where you could be coming from and going from there, if you can't handle that then too bad.

I feel likewise about your last sentence. Immaturity is what strikes me when you continually use ad hominems on me when you specifically condemned them before.

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27-07-2013, 06:48 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 06:42 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  To refute something doesn't mean that the opposition needs to be convinced. Opinions cannot be refuted, only facts can refute claims. I couldn't care less if I convinced you of anything. You can have any opinion you like about TJ, and anything else for that matter, I just don't have to agree.

I have a contempt for religious ideology not any people on here, as of yet.

You can whine about insults all day if you like, it makes no difference to me, all I see is an angry boy yelling and screaming about hurt feelings.

Your claim that I assume your beliefs is idiotic. You say things that I interpret and establish a position of where you could be coming from and going from there, if you can't handle that then too bad.

I feel likewise about your last sentence. Immaturity is what strikes me when you continually use ad hominems on me when you specifically condemned them before.

Then you are intellectually blind if you cannot see my obvious point. I have showed you why TAA is not an effective speaker. The goal of a debate is to convince your opposition, something that TAA would never be able to do effectively because of his abrasive approach. You haven't refuted my statement from any objective stance.

You may like him. By all means, like him. He is not a good speaker.

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27-07-2013, 07:03 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 06:48 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 06:42 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  To refute something doesn't mean that the opposition needs to be convinced. Opinions cannot be refuted, only facts can refute claims. I couldn't care less if I convinced you of anything. You can have any opinion you like about TJ, and anything else for that matter, I just don't have to agree.

I have a contempt for religious ideology not any people on here, as of yet.

You can whine about insults all day if you like, it makes no difference to me, all I see is an angry boy yelling and screaming about hurt feelings.

Your claim that I assume your beliefs is idiotic. You say things that I interpret and establish a position of where you could be coming from and going from there, if you can't handle that then too bad.

I feel likewise about your last sentence. Immaturity is what strikes me when you continually use ad hominems on me when you specifically condemned them before.

Then you are intellectually blind if you cannot see my obvious point. I have showed you why TAA is not an effective speaker. The goal of a debate is to convince your opposition, something that TAA would never be able to do effectively because of his abrasive approach. You haven't refuted my statement from any objective stance.

You may like him. By all means, like him. He is not a good speaker.

So you think I should regard your opinion as fact? Guess what buddy, I think he is a GREAT speaker. I love everything about him and 99% of the things he says I agree with so no he is not an ineffective speaker. You have not shown me a single piece of anything that suggests that he is an ineffective speaker and you never will. I love TJ's abrasiveness so stop trying to stick in your absolutes regarding the way I judge a speaker's ability. Also, different people have different goals/objectives in a debate so you can stick that comment to, since my objective would be to convince the audience. Just because you can't handle his rhetoric doesn't mean you can dictate to me how I feel about him, and the fact that you think you can shows who is really "intellectually blind."

I don't give a damn if you like TJ or not I'm saying that he is a great, awesome, and wonderfully abrasive speaker.

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27-07-2013, 07:08 PM
RE: The Amazing Atheist...
(27-07-2013 07:03 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  So you think I should regard your opinion as fact? Guess what buddy, I think he is a GREAT speaker. I love everything about him and 99% of the things he says I agree with so no he is not an ineffective speaker. You have not shown me a single piece of anything that suggests that he is an ineffective speaker and you never will. I love TJ's abrasiveness so stop trying to stick in your absolutes regarding the way I judge a speaker's ability. Also, different people have different goals/objectives in a debate so you can stick that comment to, since my objective would be to convince the audience. Just because you can't handle his rhetoric doesn't mean you can dictate to me how I feel about him, and the fact that you think you can shows who is really "intellectually blind."

What I am saying is not opinion. Again, the purpose of a debate is to convince your opponent. You cannot do this by being abrasive. TJ is not an effective speaker. Whether or not you like the way he presents his arguments is entirely irrelevant. His abrasive demeanor wouldn't convince anyone who wasn't already an atheist or a left-leaning libertarian.

(27-07-2013 07:03 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  I don't give a damn if you like TJ or not I'm saying that he is a great, awesome, and wonderfully abrasive speaker.

Great! I have told you why he is not an effective one.

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