The American military as a system of goverment
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26-08-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(25-08-2012 07:57 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(25-08-2012 07:51 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Ditto.


Tell that to all the now openly gay soldiers under Obama's anti-DADT policy. The president makes decisions on the lives of soldiers as well.


Ummmm, I did? Didn't like my bosses, preferred a different lifestyle, honorable discharge, here I am with new job and new boss. The socialist military society is populated by all volunteers. People like this lifestyle so much they re-volunteer every few years. What is wrong with this?

I can tell you that the military's position towards homosexuals has not changed in practicality.

The majority of people who join the military serve because it is a free passage into college. If the military pays for 4 years of college, you pay back with 4 years of service. You can't just say, "Welp, fuck dis, I'm out."

While there are plenty of people that do join the military to help pay for college, it was never the majority reason. This isespecially true not with the high possibility that joining the military most likely means that you will serve a tour in a combat zone.
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26-08-2012, 01:25 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(26-08-2012 01:09 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  
(25-08-2012 07:57 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I can tell you that the military's position towards homosexuals has not changed in practicality.

The majority of people who join the military serve because it is a free passage into college. If the military pays for 4 years of college, you pay back with 4 years of service. You can't just say, "Welp, fuck dis, I'm out."

While there are plenty of people that do join the military to help pay for college, it was never the majority reason. This isespecially true not with the high possibility that joining the military most likely means that you will serve a tour in a combat zone.

The majority of service members do not partake in any combat, and are out of harm's way.

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26-08-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
The argument doesn't make sense as it is under-specified.

The military answers to elected civilian authority.

Which are you suggesting:
- No more elections?
- Every aspect of civilian life being subject to command as opposed to choice?

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26-08-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(26-08-2012 02:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  - Every aspect of civilian life being subject to command as opposed to choice?

That's the bit I would be nervous of...
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26-08-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(26-08-2012 02:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 02:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  - Every aspect of civilian life being subject to command as opposed to choice?

That's the bit I would be nervous of...

"Nervous"

Hands-down winner of "Understatement of the Day".

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27-08-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(26-08-2012 01:25 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 01:09 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  While there are plenty of people that do join the military to help pay for college, it was never the majority reason. This isespecially true not with the high possibility that joining the military most likely means that you will serve a tour in a combat zone.

The majority of service members do not partake in any combat, and are out of harm's way.

The threat of going into combat has still been a determent for most "college money only" recruits for quite sometime. Like I sadi, even before that college money was not the majority reason.
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27-08-2012, 05:18 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(27-08-2012 03:55 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 01:25 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The majority of service members do not partake in any combat, and are out of harm's way.

The threat of going into combat has still been a determent for most "college money only" recruits for quite sometime. Like I sadi, even before that college money was not the majority reason.

The idea is that you will be one of the few who do. It is the same as, "Well, a number of people die while giving birth, so I won't get pregnant." You just don't care because it is statistically insignificant. Not many soldiers see combat at all.

I have spent my entire life around the military, my father's side have all been apart of it, and I spend my time around recruiters. I know that is a definite primary motivator.

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27-08-2012, 09:06 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(26-08-2012 02:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  The argument doesn't make sense as it is under-specified.

The military answers to elected civilian authority.

Which are you suggesting:
- No more elections?
- Every aspect of civilian life being subject to command as opposed to choice?

Well seeing as how this is a rhetorical scenario, let's try both and see which one would be better.

If we do no elections and give political power military-style, we are left with rank promotions. You get promoted through experience and leadership abilities. But what that leaves us with is a tribal system, where all the elders are given power, even though they're mostly senile. Plus the military has rank imbalances already. Real soldiers are so busy training and being deployed that promotion ceremonies are a rare thing. Meanwhile the Reserves and people living on bases with Burger King are so bored they promote themselves daily. There would have to be a checks and balances and a universal system for rank.

As for the second question, the modern military seems to have an on/off switch. During work hours, you do what you are told or you are punished. The only reason you put up with it is because at 5 o'clock, everyone basically puts their rank away and becomes free men. It's like a 9 to 5 Authoritarian shift that transitions to a Republic for the down time. So in a way, it's like extreme capitalism. You put up with your 9 to 5 boss and generally follow orders because you know at 5:01, you can do whatever you want.

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27-08-2012, 09:24 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(27-08-2012 09:06 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 02:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  The argument doesn't make sense as it is under-specified.

The military answers to elected civilian authority.

Which are you suggesting:
- No more elections?
- Every aspect of civilian life being subject to command as opposed to choice?

Well seeing as how this is a rhetorical scenario, let's try both and see which one would be better.

If we do no elections and give political power military-style, we are left with rank promotions. You get promoted through experience and leadership abilities. But what that leaves us with is a tribal system, where all the elders are given power, even though they're mostly senile. Plus the military has rank imbalances already. Real soldiers are so busy training and being deployed that promotion ceremonies are a rare thing. Meanwhile the Reserves and people living on bases with Burger King are so bored they promote themselves daily. There would have to be a checks and balances and a universal system for rank.

As for the second question, the modern military seems to have an on/off switch. During work hours, you do what you are told or you are punished. The only reason you put up with it is because at 5 o'clock, everyone basically puts their rank away and becomes free men. It's like a 9 to 5 Authoritarian shift that transitions to a Republic for the down time. So in a way, it's like extreme capitalism. You put up with your 9 to 5 boss and generally follow orders because you know at 5:01, you can do whatever you want.

And from whence do the laws and civil authority come when you're not on the job?

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27-08-2012, 11:25 PM
RE: The American military as a system of goverment
(27-08-2012 09:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  And from whence do the laws and civil authority come when you're not on the job?

I was stationed in Germany and we were basically untouchable by German police. The most they could do is hand us over to the military to deal with accordingly. So on base and during work hours, we would be governed by the MP, or Military Police. Same as what we have in civilian world. And outside the base and during off hours, we had something, I forget the technical name (something like Drunk Patrol), where different people were assigned each night to drive around the city making sure soldiers weren't doing anything stupid. So the law is enforced in roughly the same manner.

But as far as law creation and amendment... we were bound to the same 3 branches as civilians. Perhaps it's possible to maintain the same political system of lawmaking and just introduce this new military structure? We're not talking about replacing the old America as much as just implementing military socialism.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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