The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
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07-12-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
(07-12-2012 09:11 PM)bemore Wrote:  



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
Nope.

If a company is in another country then it cannot be effected by laws of that of another country, it's as easy as that.

ie: Piratebay.se (movie/games/music torrent search engine. It's where everyone gets illegal movies/games/music online)
That is a Swedish website. It's base of operations is in Sweden and it's servers are in Sweden.
Yet it breaches American law ALLL the time (though if you understand torrents then you'd know that even this is a stretch).
They have had numerous legal threats, NUMEROUS. All quoting laws of that country whether it's US or UK or whatever, and every time piratebay has politely informed them that piratebay falls under Swedish law and nothing illegal (in regards to Swedish law) is being done and hence there is nothing these American or British companies can do. (I know this because piratebay makes these emails public).

No legal action has even forced piratebay to remove anything from it's site simply because it can't.

If a website is based in the EU, it's servers are in the EU then there is NO WAY that US law can effect that website.
Now if that website had a base of operations in the US that would be different.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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07-12-2012, 09:43 PM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
(07-12-2012 09:37 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 09:11 PM)bemore Wrote:  



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
Nope.

If a company is in another country then it cannot be effected by laws of that of another country, it's as easy as that.

ie: Piratebay.se (movie/games/music torrent search engine. It's where everyone gets illegal movies/games/music online)
That is a Swedish website. It's base of operations is in Sweden and it's servers are in Sweden.
Yet it breaches American law ALLL the time (though if you understand torrents then you'd know that even this is a stretch).
They have had numerous legal threats, NUMEROUS. All quoting laws of that country whether it's US or UK or whatever, and every time piratebay has politely informed them that piratebay falls under Swedish law and nothing illegal (in regards to Swedish law) is being done and hence there is nothing these American or British companies can do. (I know this because piratebay makes these emails public).

No legal action has even forced piratebay to remove anything from it's site simply because it can't.

If a website is based in the EU, it's servers are in the EU then there is NO WAY that US law can effect that website.
Now if that website had a base of operations in the US that would be different.
Did you watch the video I quoted?

Im not doubting what your saying muffs, but what I posted is about access to information, not enforcing laws on other countries.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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07-12-2012, 09:53 PM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
I did actually.

Access to cloud information.
But what I said applies. Because to access that information in the first place the government has to have legal authority to do so. And if it's a foreign company then there is no law that the US government can make that will legally allow them to access that information.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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07-12-2012, 10:06 PM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
Some differing views and interesting reading after a quick Google search.

http://www.zdnet.com/bad-assumptions-abo...000002614/


http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=11187


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/ca...-data/8805

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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08-12-2012, 12:40 AM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
Yea basically those links say the same thing I've been saying.
That if it's a foreign company the US government can't do shit.

BUT because companies with these cloud services (ie Amazon, which is an Irish company apparently) have US companies that actually own these companies, THOSE companies are subject to the Patriot Act.

So when they say that the US just made a law that will effect Europeans that is stretching the truth.
It will effect the US companies that own these EU companies.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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08-12-2012, 03:06 AM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
When we throw the word democratic around, we forget that the U.S' model is democratic republic. The UN is a larger system, but it remains the same.

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08-12-2012, 07:00 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2012 07:51 AM by Janus.)
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
(07-12-2012 09:53 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I did actually.

Access to cloud information.
But what I said applies. Because to access that information in the first place the government has to have legal authority to do so. And if it's a foreign company then there is no law that the US government can make that will legally allow them to access that information.


Yes, they can. US laws apply in US jurisdictions.
Whatever a (foreign) company (or individual) does or doesn't do on US soil is subject to US law*.
PLUS: international treaties supercede national law. So the only thing the US has to do is to sneak stuff into an international treaty (a national law isn't even necessary). Which is, for example, what they've been trying real hard to do for years with SOPA, PIPA, and all the other copyright laws and agreements.

* Which is why I have not (and will not) travel(led) to the US anymore since the Patriot Act , TSA , and FISA . (The 25 years prior to that I did on average 3 times a year). Those laws are unconstitutional – a.k.a. criminal – where I come from. To be subjected to them is unacceptable to a free citizen.
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08-12-2012, 07:57 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2012 08:04 AM by Janus.)
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
(08-12-2012 03:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  When we throw the word democratic around, we forget that the U.S' model is democratic republic. The UN is a larger system, but it remains the same.


No, the UN is not the same at all! It is totally different! The UN is not a republic and operates under the systems of proportional representation, coalition, and cooperation. Unheard of concepts in American society. While the US system is based on 'winner-takes-all' and 'fuck-the-loser'. That's a 90 degree different attitude. Thus bound to clash.
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08-12-2012, 08:09 AM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
(07-12-2012 06:17 PM)Janus Wrote:  It seems that everybody has forgotten that it was registration – data collection and storage – that enabled the efficient rounding up and killing of 6 million Jews on an industrial scale in WWII.
Really? Godwin's law in the third post?

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08-12-2012, 08:27 AM
RE: The Apocalypse is an on-going, slow-moving affair
(08-12-2012 07:57 AM)Janus Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 03:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  When we throw the word democratic around, we forget that the U.S' model is democratic republic. The UN is a larger system, but it remains the same.


No, the UN is not the same at all! It is totally different! The UN is not a republic and operates under the systems of proportional representation, coalition, and cooperation. Unheard of concepts in American society. While the US system is based on 'winner-takes-all' and 'fuck-the-loser'. That's a 90 degree different attitude. Thus bound to clash.
Whether or not participants vote for ridiculous policies is completely irrelevant. The UN operates in the same manner as a U.S democratic republic, or a European parliament.

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