The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
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29-09-2015, 09:05 PM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
And here is another piece on the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdelaine being the same person: https://books.google.com.cy/books?id=zPm...on&f=false
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29-09-2015, 09:26 PM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(29-09-2015 08:32 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  oh yeah and H of C.nt you f.ck .ff 2

This thread is mine and it is only for people who actually can think and do have a sense of humour, which neither of you do.

Incorrect. H of C.nt has a highly refined sense of humour. I think he was trying to wipe some the egg off Bucky's face.

It was a tender and loving thing to do.

Wink

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29-09-2015, 09:39 PM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
Here is a reference to a Mary who is converted to Judaism by Rabbi Eleazar:

During the period of its efflorescence, Palmyra had a Jewish community, as is clear from various documents and inscriptions of the period. The mention of Miriam of Palmyra in the Mishnah (Naz. 6:11) as a contemporary of the first-century R. Eliezer indicates that a Jewish community may have existed there at an earlier date. In literal obedience to biblical command the Shema (Deut. 6:4–9) is carved on the stone lintel of a building in Palmyra which E.L. Sukenik believes to have been part of a synagogue (CIJ no. 821). Other house inscriptions have also been found; they contain the following biblical texts: (a) Deuteronomy 7:15 and 25:5; (b) ibid. 28:4b–5; © ibid. 7:14; and (d) Shema Yisrael in large letters (CIJ nos. 821–3).

All of them predate the third century C.E. A number of Jewish funerary inscriptions have also been found (cf. Cooke, bibl., and CIJ no. 820). They are dated second and third century C.E. From them it seems that the Palmyrene Jewish community was fairly large and conscious of its Judaism, although non-Jewish personal names became increasingly common (as in Egypt), e.g., Wahb'allāth ("the gift of [the goddess] Allāt").

In addition, graves of Palmyrene Jews are to be found in *Bet She'arim and Jerusalem although it is not known whether the bodies were brought to Jerusalem for reburial or whether a community of Palmyrene Jews had settled there. The cemetery of Bet She'arim has a large number of graves of Palmyrene Jews, including spacious, decorated burial chambers. This cemetery was in use for about 150 years, until its destruction by Gaulus in 352. Palmyra's brief rule over Palestine during that period may have made the transport of bodies for burial easier.

The Palmyrene pantheon was a syncretism of Canaanite, Greek, and Syrian deities. One of the latter was the moon god, ʿAglibol (i.e., "calf-ba'al"; Gr. ʾΑγλίβαλος; cf. Cooke, bibl., nos. 139, 140), who is identified with the Ugaritic god mentioned in the "Hymn to Rpu" called ʾgl-il ("calf god") connected with tr-il ("bull god"; cf. C.F.A. Schaeffer, Mission de Ras Shamra, 16 (1968), 551–5). ʿAglibol is thus connected with the ancient calf god which appeared in the Bible as the golden calf (Ex. 32:4). In Palmyra the month of Tammuz is called "Qnyn," just as Tammuz is lamented with kinah in Ezekiel (8:3, 14).

The Talmud (Yev. 16a; Nid. 56b; TJ, Kid. 4:1, 65c, and Yev. 1:6, 3b) mentions Palmyrene converts to Judaism. Buechler suggests this is connected with the conversion of the Adiabene dynasty in the first century C.E. Many Palmyrenes also came into contact with Jews while accompanying commercial caravans to the Persian Gulf along a route which led through such large Jewish centers as *Pumbedita, *Nehardea, *Sura, and *Maḥoza. M. Lidzbarski (Ephemeris fuer semitische Epigraphik, 1 (1902), 247f., 2 (1908), 295, 298) points out that specifically Jewish phrases had crept into Palmyrene inscriptions. A number of them (Février, Religion, bibl., 120–7) are dedicated to an anonymous god with the words לבריך שמה לעלמא ("May his name be praised forever") which is generally assumed to be a Jewish influence on Palmyrenes against profaning the name of a god. The Talmud reports that the rabbis looked upon converts from Palmyra, who evidently retained customs of idol worship, with suspicion and viewed the city itself with animosity. "The future destruction of Palmyra will be a day of rejoicing for Israel" (Yev. 17a). Aggadic tradition holds that Palmyrenes participated in the destruction of the First and Second Temples. The brief ten-year rule of Palmyra over Palestine was not a peaceful or happy one, and R. Johanan said: "Blessed be he who will witness the downfall of Tarmod (Tadmor)" (TJ, Ta'an. 4:8, 69b). The Babylonian rabbis also suffered from the Palmyrenes, who, during the reign of Odenathus, fought with Rome against Persia and destroyed Nehardea in the process. The Talmud refers to Odenathus as Ben Naẓer and also mentions Queen Zenobia, who was considered to be sympathetic to the Jews. (For a discussion on the alleged Judaism of Zenobia and of a number of inscriptionary Palmyrene names which are preceded by בת see Février, Religion, bibl., 220). Jewish Virtual Library

The R Eleizar is Eleazar ben Azariah whose teachings could be straight out of the New Testament: Therefrom Eleazar draws the lesson that the efficacy of the day extends only to sins against God, while sins against man are not forgiven unless the offended party has first been reconciled.[27][28 wiki

So when you are offering your gift at the altar, if you remember that your brother or sister* has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother or sister,* and then come and offer your gift. Matthew 5
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29-09-2015, 10:06 PM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(29-09-2015 09:26 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 08:32 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  oh yeah and H of C.nt you f.ck .ff 2

This thread is mine and it is only for people who actually can think and do have a sense of humour, which neither of you do.

Incorrect. H of C.nt has a highly refined sense of humour. I think he was trying to wipe some the egg off Bucky's face.

It was a tender and loving thing to do.

Wink


I have no idea, to be honest. I don't find BB to be in the least bit funny. He engages in personal attacks on people, particularly me. He can't see the amusing side of anything. He just comes across as a bully and a know it all and he just doesn't back it up.

I may have a different view of things but I do mean what I am posting. We have had 2000 years of Christianized education in the West and a few decades ago I was still listening to people telling me the earth was created 4000 years ago and that is in an advanced culture which ranks no. 1 in the world in terms of its education system. I happened to study religion at university and attended one of the top five universities in the world in a facultty rated no. 1 in the country. I am not stupid and I don't need to be told that I am some kind of moron for posting stuff off the internet which might be provocative or funny. I can discern between truth and fantasy and I don't have to be told that something is or is not supported by reliable academics.

The point is that the history of the Near East, out of which emanates what we know as western religion has been reported largely by propagandists of the Roman Empire and Catholicism so pretty much anything that one finds of a "reliable" nature, according to BB and some others is tainted in favour of a Christianized version or a Judaic version of how things happened.

I just feel it might yield something if people start looking at this from another perspective. I don't, for instance, think that Islam derives simply from the writing of the Koran. That book was not read by anyone so it is inconceivable to me that it caused the rise of the religion. Islam is an Abrahamic religion and it's customs and traditions are, imho, likely to be those of the Abrahamic religion which was around at the time of Jesus.

Jesus is said to be of the line of David, so I want to take that at face value and see where that takes me, if for instance Josephus is right and the Jews who left Egypt were Hyksos. That makes Jesus a descendent of Hurrians or Assyrians on some accounts. We see in Egyptian iconography the portrayal of Horus as a falcon carrying a Coptic Christian cross and the Hyksos became rulers of Egypt. That would sugges that Jesus is descended from Pharoahs, and from Jews held in captivity in Persia. That ties in with the visit at his birth from Magi who are Persians. He is then converted to...what? By whom? We have a story of a conversion to Judaism in the 1st century...Eleazar converting Helen and Abgarus.

I know it is joining the dots but so what? The problem these days is that academics are too compartmentalized. We now have DNA which shows King Tut was European as were the Ottoman Emperors. That has to turn the history of the Near East on its head and we can't ignore that. Nasa has taken thermal images of the Near East which show that it was heavily populated and excavations have shown it was sheep farming country. We now know there was a rise in sea water after the melting of an ice cap. All of this is what we should be looking at, not trying to take propagandist works like the NT and OT and trying to make sense of them in isolation from the surrounding history which we are only now uncovering. We have only just discovered Gobeke Tepe which is hugely significant and we haven't even uncovered it all.

I get frustrated and annoyed by people who don't even bother to look at the historical record because some other academics have ignored some aspect of it. The result is this rise of the idea that a whole civilization in the Near East and Mediterranean world were duped into thinking that Jesus was a complete myth and his story is not based on any living person or any events.

The reason for this is two fold. One is that we have to believe, for some reason, that the events of the NT had to take place in 30 AD because of a reference to Pontius Pilate. Second, we have to believe that there was a man called Paul. We base those on the NT itself while, at the same time, we say that the rest of the NT is fiction. We don't know who Matthew, Mark Luke and John were. Presumably they had other names. Paul must be the same. The NT is intended to be prophetic so it may be set in an earlier time period.

Just look elsewhere, think, ask questions. It is important because what we face in the world now can't be solved by armies. It is an ideological conflict and it's not going to go away nor is ignoring historical lessons going to add anything. That is what Islam does. It denies history completely. Religions do that, they bend and shape things to their own ends so I enjoy putting a finger up to people who just want to shout me down for posting "stuff" which may or may not be true and requires people to think and discern.
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30-09-2015, 12:49 AM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(29-09-2015 08:54 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Here is the Abgar dynasty which Ellis says gives rise to the Jesus story:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/ab...ury-ad#pt4

Of course, this has to be completely wrong because it fails the Bucky Ball tests on two grounds: 1. he's never heard of it and 2. he's never heard of it. Which means that anyone who has heard of it must be a fraud.

And neither has anyone else except you and your fairy tale gang. No one cares what you two say. you make up shit. You have not a shred of evidence for any of your bullshit.

This is not "your thread". This is TTA. How much have YOU contributed to it ?
Oh.
Nothing.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-09-2015, 12:52 AM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2015 12:56 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  We now have DNA which shows King Tut was European as were the Ottoman Emperors. That has to turn the history of the Near East on its head and we can't ignore that. Nasa has taken thermal images of the Near East which show that it was heavily populated and excavations have shown it was sheep farming country.

Prove it with peer reviewed references and archaeology, you delusional fuckwad.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-09-2015, 12:59 AM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(30-09-2015 12:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  We now have DNA which shows King Tut was European as were the Ottoman Emperors. That has to turn the history of the Near East on its head and we can't ignore that. Nasa has taken thermal images of the Near East which show that it was heavily populated and excavations have shown it was sheep farming country.

Prove it with peer reviewed references and archaeology, you delusional fuckwad.

Ol' DB is a sock of Ralph Ellis. He's just trying to be oh-so-cunning by pretending to not be Ralph Ellis. Rolleyes

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-09-2015, 01:02 AM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(30-09-2015 12:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-09-2015 12:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Prove it with peer reviewed references and archaeology, you delusional fuckwad.

Ol' DB is a sock of Ralph Ellis. He's just trying to be oh-so-cunning by pretending to not be Ralph Ellis. Rolleyes

But but all this was "revealed" to him, so we must believe it is true, if it was 'revealed' to such a brilliant dot-connector.

Quote:I have recently had a revelation and it is this.

Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-09-2015, 02:00 AM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
He engages in personal attacks on people, particularly me.
...

Nah. He's like that with everyone. Don't take it personally.

(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
He can't see the amusing side of anything. He just comes across as a bully and a know it all and he just doesn't back it up.
...

Have you seen his signature? It's a life choice.

Drinking Beverage

(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
I am not stupid and I don't need to be told that I am some kind of moron for posting stuff off the internet which might be provocative or funny.
...

I can tell you're not stupid. That said, provocative and/or funny is kinda what we do around here and didn't you just write an Aristocrats routine? So welcome to the club.

I thought it was funny. Someone else was provoked. C'est la vie. Big Grin

(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
[some ideas] ... looking at this from another perspective
...

This is what I find strange... picking apart the myths is what Bucky is known for. I can't understand why you, Bucky and e.g. Mark Fulton aren't on the same team. Maybe it's down to style / approach? I dunno.

(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
I get frustrated and annoyed by people who don't even bother to look at the historical record because some other academics have ignored some aspect of it. The result is this rise of the idea that a whole civilization in the Near East and Mediterranean world were duped into thinking that Jesus was a complete myth and his story is not based on any living person or any events.
...

Personally, I like that that idea has arisen. It's useful for 'breaking the spell'.

(29-09-2015 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
Religions do that, they bend and shape things to their own ends so I enjoy putting a finger up
...

On that, we can all agree.

Big Grin

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30-09-2015, 02:08 AM
RE: The Aristocrats- The New Testament read literally
(30-09-2015 01:02 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-09-2015 12:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  Ol' DB is a sock of Ralph Ellis. He's just trying to be oh-so-cunning by pretending to not be Ralph Ellis. Rolleyes

But but all this was "revealed" to him, so we must believe it is true, if it was 'revealed' to such a brilliant dot-connector.

Quote:I have recently had a revelation and it is this.

Facepalm

BB, you have surpassed yourself. Sockpuppet? Facepalm

I don't agree with Ralph Ellis on key points. I also don't agree with Joseph Atwill on Key points. Shocking

So, since I have your undivided attention...

The difference between the Hebraic religion and the Greco-Romans is quite simple. the Greeks and Romans were polytheists. They believed that their gods lived in the sky, at the top of mountains. They were real things, not metaphysical concepts.

The Hebraic religion predating Jesus also had a god who inhabited the sky and was a real entity, not a metaphysical being. He could be spoken to, as Moses did, by climbing a mountain. He lived in the sky. You could see him. You still can. He is a big man and he has a big dick and a big dog and he has a cross strapped to his back. go outside tonight if it clear and you can see him. Here he is: http://www.space.com/5104-spot-brightest-star-sky.html

The cross has at its top the planet Jupiter and at the bottom, Sirius. The god is Horus and he is an avenging god who drives darkness away. He climbs up from the horizon as the sun goes down and by midnight he is in the center of the night sky, and is most prominent around Christmas time.

That is the god of the Abrahamic religion. Pontificating about metaphysical concepts and then thinking you are clever because you are smarter than stone age men is quite funny because they had no idea about a metaphysical world. They thought god created man by using his dick and that he lived in the sky.

So, when people go on about how the monotheists were somehow more advanced than the Romans who were still polytheists, they are simply talking a load of crap. The reality is that, if you don't engage in "presentism", a monotheist believed in one sky god while polytheists believed in lots of them. The question is, what is the manifestation of this sky god and the answer is that it can only be Orion/Apollo/Horus and this figure has a cross on its back. Which is the reason that followers of the religion to which Jesus purportedly belonged were nailed to crosses, because the symbol of the pre-Jesus Hebraic religion has to have been a cross.
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