The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
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29-01-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
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Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-01-2013, 04:31 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:24 PM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:  
(29-01-2013 04:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Richard, I'm not labeling.

It's just simple identification.

Christians who believe in freewill are called "Arminians" and Christians who believe in election are called "Calvinist".

Predestination is a belief that from the beginning of time, God predestined those that were to be saved (the elect). This means that a person has no bearing on their salvation and cannot "choose" to be saved. God chose those that would be saved.

Called by whom KC? You? Who are you to label me? Why do you have a need to label me? I am identified as Richard Stuckmeyer, that is sufficient.
I disagree with predestination then because God knew from the beginning who would and would not believe. He did not take away their free will, He just knew the end of the game.
You sure try to make salvation difficult. You are just like the priest, pharicees and sadducees that tried to make salvation difficult for the Jews. Shame on you KC.
They are called this by the Christian faith.

Just like Christians with differing eschatological views are called Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, Amillennial, etc.

If God knew from the beginning who would choose and who wouldn't choose, then there was no choice. Moreover, if God granted us freewill, then He isn't all powerful. Freewill, our actions and whims, govern God. Freewill subjugates God which destroys His omnipotence.

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29-01-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: img-thing.jpg]
Hey Chas!
A lot of people do!
Can you prove them wrong? Consider
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29-01-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-01-2013 04:24 PM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:  Called by whom KC? You? Who are you to label me? Why do you have a need to label me? I am identified as Richard Stuckmeyer, that is sufficient.
I disagree with predestination then because God knew from the beginning who would and would not believe. He did not take away their free will, He just knew the end of the game.
You sure try to make salvation difficult. You are just like the priest, pharicees and sadducees that tried to make salvation difficult for the Jews. Shame on you KC.
They are called this by the Christian faith.

Just like Christians with differing eschatological views are called Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, Amillennial, etc.

If God knew from the beginning who would choose and who wouldn't choose, then there was no choice. Moreover, if God granted us freewill, then He isn't all powerful. Freewill, our actions and whims, govern God. Freewill subjugates God which destroys His omnipotence.
KC, I honestly thought you were smarter than this. How does God knowing the outcome of life deny anyone free will?
How is He not all-powerful? We dont govern God. Wow, I'm glad I aint as smart as you. I'm gonna label you now, people that believe what you believe were called Pharicees.
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29-01-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-01-2013 04:24 PM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:  Called by whom KC? You? Who are you to label me? Why do you have a need to label me? I am identified as Richard Stuckmeyer, that is sufficient.
I disagree with predestination then because God knew from the beginning who would and would not believe. He did not take away their free will, He just knew the end of the game.
You sure try to make salvation difficult. You are just like the priest, pharicees and sadducees that tried to make salvation difficult for the Jews. Shame on you KC.
They are called this by the Christian faith.

Just like Christians with differing eschatological views are called Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, Amillennial, etc.

If God knew from the beginning who would choose and who wouldn't choose, then there was no choice. Moreover, if God granted us freewill, then He isn't all powerful. Freewill, our actions and whims, govern God. Freewill subjugates God which destroys His omnipotence.
If God exists He is surely more than an arbitrary chooser.
This view also negates the atonement, in my view.
Why give a second chance is all pre arranged?
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29-01-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Muffs... ugh... you're not getting it.

Yes, I see what you're saying. Yes, I get it.

But, if you don't believe in the Bible, then the beliefs being discussed are moot. There is absolutely no discussion.
No, I get it.

But, if you don't believe in the Bible, then the beliefs being discussed are moot. There is absolutely no discussion.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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29-01-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:33 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(29-01-2013 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: img-thing.jpg]
Hey Chas!
A lot of people do!
Can you prove them wrong? Consider


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29-01-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
I know you wont like this becuase you want to draw me into a leghty theological discussion but I am not a learned man like you KC. I offer you these questions and answers regarding Calvinism, which I agree with. If you dont wanna read them, fine. Dont ask me any more questions then:
http://gracethrufaith.com/?s=calvinists&cat=3
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29-01-2013, 04:41 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:35 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(29-01-2013 04:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  They are called this by the Christian faith.

Just like Christians with differing eschatological views are called Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, Amillennial, etc.

If God knew from the beginning who would choose and who wouldn't choose, then there was no choice. Moreover, if God granted us freewill, then He isn't all powerful. Freewill, our actions and whims, govern God. Freewill subjugates God which destroys His omnipotence.
If God exists He is surely more than an arbitrary chooser.
This view also negates the atonement, in my view.
Why give a second chance is all pre arranged?
Are you talking to me or KC?
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29-01-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread
(29-01-2013 04:35 PM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:  
(29-01-2013 04:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  They are called this by the Christian faith.

Just like Christians with differing eschatological views are called Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, Amillennial, etc.

If God knew from the beginning who would choose and who wouldn't choose, then there was no choice. Moreover, if God granted us freewill, then He isn't all powerful. Freewill, our actions and whims, govern God. Freewill subjugates God which destroys His omnipotence.
KC, I honestly thought you were smarter than this. How does God knowing the outcome of life deny anyone free will?
How is He not all-powerful? We dont govern God. Wow, I'm glad I aint as smart as you. I'm gonna label you now, people that believe what you believe were called Pharicees.
If God is all knowing and all powerful freewill cannot exist. If He is all knowing, then He already knows the outcome of everything, which means it's already prearranged.

If we have freewill, then we could alter this; thus limiting God's power. Since God's power cannot be limited, and we cannot do anything to affect God, we cannot have freewill.

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