The Arminianism vs Calvinism (freewill vs election) Debate and Discussion Thread

[kingschosen]

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Now do you see why in order to discuss the topic there has to be that parameter?

It strikes me as mere peripheral bullocks, compared to the more important question of why this should be the case at all. In other words, theology built on the bible is like a house built on a crumbling cliff above the raging sea. Sure, do it if you like, but your foundation is not secure.

I'm aware of this.

But, to Christians, it is a solid foundation.

This is "theology".

I don't understand why everything has to turn into an atheism vs theism debate.

It would go like this:

T: Let's discuss what the Bible says about freewill vs election.
A: The Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: So, we're not discussing freewill and election?
A: No, the Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
A&T: I GIVE UP!!!
fin

[Mr Woof]

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Now do you see why in order to discuss the topic there has to be that parameter?

It strikes me as mere peripheral bullocks, compared to the more important question of why this should be the case at all. In other words, theology built on the bible is like a house built on a crumbling cliff above the raging sea. Sure, do it if you like, but your foundation is not secure.

Nor is Big Bang evolutionary determinism!

[Hobbitgirl]

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)kineo Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:06 PM)Vera Wrote:  Think me and hobbitgirl debating who's cooler - Aragorn (obviously!) or Gandalf.

OT-

Woah now- clearly Gandalf is far cooler than Aragorn. I have to seriously question your thinking on this one... Can someone point me to this thread where this question is raised?

There is no thread. She was just being silly cause I'm a Gandalf fan. (But you're right, Gandalf owns Aragorn)

[Richard Stuckmeyer]

(29-01-2013 04:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  It strikes me as mere peripheral bullocks, compared to the more important question of why this should be the case at all. In other words, theology built on the bible is like a house built on a crumbling cliff above the raging sea. Sure, do it if you like, but your foundation is not secure.

I'm aware of this.

But, to Christians, it is a solid foundation.

This is "theology".

I don't understand why everything has to turn into an atheism vs theism debate.

It would go like this:

T: Let's discuss what the Bible says about freewill vs election.
A: The Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: So, we're not discussing freewill and election?
A: No, the Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
A&T: I GIVE UP!!!
fin

[Mr Woof]

(29-01-2013 04:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  It strikes me as mere peripheral bullocks, compared to the more important question of why this should be the case at all. In other words, theology built on the bible is like a house built on a crumbling cliff above the raging sea. Sure, do it if you like, but your foundation is not secure.

I'm aware of this.

But, to Christians, it is a solid foundation.

This is "theology".

I don't understand why everything has to turn into an atheism vs theism debate.

It would go like this:

T: Let's discuss what the Bible says about freewill vs election.
A: The Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: So, we're not discussing freewill and election?
A: No, the Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
A&T: I GIVE UP!!!
fin

Please don't have a break down K.C.

[Emma]

(29-01-2013 04:56 PM)Vera Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)kineo Wrote:  Woah now- clearly Gandalf is far cooler than Aragorn. I have to seriously question your thinking on this one... Can someone point me to this thread where this question is raised?

Bullcrap. Total, unabashed bullcrap. You don't know shit, you and Aragorn is way way sexier.
And so are a couple more folks from The Silmarillion. Nothing can hold a candle to a good (tortured) hero

Wait, are we talking sexy or cool here? Gandalf isn't meant to be sexy- clearly Aragorn wins that battle. But in terms of cool... Gandalf is older and wiser and is a wizard! Oh yeah, Aragorn loses.

[kingschosen]

(29-01-2013 04:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Now do you see why in order to discuss the topic there has to be that parameter?

Now? I understood from the beginning, I'm not a fucking moron.

But do you understand why there is no point to the disscussion when it's made entirely moot by the fact that the bible is a load of shit, which is MY point.

That is only a matter of opinion shared by you and other atheists.

Don't really understand the point of what you're trying to do here, Muffs?

Trying to say the validity of the discussion topic is irrelevant if you believe the Bible is false? Yeah, I know. I agree.

However, the topic is about AvsC and in order to discuss this, you have to go on the presumptions that the Bible is correct.

If you don't want to do that, then it's literally impossible for you to take place in the discussion.

Muffs, if someone is talked about who's better - Wolverine or Batman - do you bust up in the conversation and say, "It doesn't matter, they're not real."

Sure, you may be correct, but what exactly are you adding to the debate? Why are you so upset with people having the discussion in the first place?

[Phaedrus]

(29-01-2013 04:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:50 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  It strikes me as mere peripheral bullocks, compared to the more important question of why this should be the case at all. In other words, theology built on the bible is like a house built on a crumbling cliff above the raging sea. Sure, do it if you like, but your foundation is not secure.

I'm aware of this.

But, to Christians, it is a solid foundation.

This is "theology".

I don't understand why everything has to turn into an atheism vs theism debate.

It would go like this:

T: Let's discuss what the Bible says about freewill vs election.
A: The Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: So, we're not discussing freewill and election?
A: No, the Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
A&T: I GIVE UP!!!
fin

If I'm not mistaken, didn't you admit a while back that the bible is the imperfect interpretation of "the lord's holy word" and thus you are merely interpreting an interpretation of the truth? And that you believe because you are predestined to believe? So you believe because you believe?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[kim]

(29-01-2013 04:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:48 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  But why create virtually innocent people to suffer, just to join the exclusive God Club?

Because Christ's purpose was set up from infinity as well. And His purpose was to offer salvation for the atoned.

Well, according to this infinity set up, there is no such thing as atonement. It's all a complete ruse.

Ok, is anyone seeing the validity of my hypothesis that Jeeeeezus was an atheist?

Anyone? Anyone?

[Mr Woof]

(29-01-2013 05:05 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  

(29-01-2013 04:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm aware of this.

But, to Christians, it is a solid foundation.

This is "theology".

I don't understand why everything has to turn into an atheism vs theism debate.

It would go like this:

T: Let's discuss what the Bible says about freewill vs election.
A: The Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: So, we're not discussing freewill and election?
A: No, the Bible is false.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
T: No it's not. Here's why.
A: Yes it is. Here's why.
A&T: I GIVE UP!!!
fin

If I'm not mistaken, didn't you admit a while back that the bible is the imperfect interpretation of "the lord's holy word" and thus you are merely interpreting an interpretation of the truth? And that you believe because you are predestined to believe? So you believe because you believe?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

(29-01-2013 05:05 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Well Dude, sounds better than bitch, I may not have time to debate the deterministic atheist Universe, so I briefly ponder the potential ethereal issues......